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[Video Games] The Rise and Fall and Rise Again and Fall Again of Lab Zero Games

The last drama post I did about Kuma Miko seemed to have gotten some praise, but some wished to see a Hobby Drama post that had consequences outside “people got angry over it”. So without any further delay, here’s a story about a studio that’s close to my heart, one that I’ve backed twice and seen die twice.
Note: This is a fairly lengthy drama, so forgive me if I’m not able to provide all of my sources. Most of the front half of this comes from this video, which chronicles the first half of Lab Zero entirely in Russian.
From Ahad to Mike Z
Let’s start in the beginning. Alex Ahad is a freelance illustrator who, in between other work, had created character designs for a prospective fighting game. Mike Zaimont is a professional fighting game player best known for games like BlazBlue and Marvel Vs. Capcom, but since 1999 had been coding a custom engine in his free time, which he hoped could be used for a fighting game. The two met in 2008, and the two quickly realized that with each other’s help, their dream could come true. In 2010, the two joined the newly developed game studio Reverge Labs. Joining their team was Mariel “Kinuko” Cartwright, a friend of Ahad’s and daughter of a Disney animator who helped animate games such as Scott Pilgrim vs. The World and Shantae; Peter Bartholow, who acted as CEO of Reverge as well as their PR arm; and an assortment of other animators and designers. Their goal: a fighting game in the style of Marvel vs. Capcom 2 with hand-drawn animation that they called Skullgirls.
After obtaining publishers in Autumn Games and Konami (at the time of development the Microsoft required indie devs to have a retail publisher in order to bring their games to Xbox Live Arcade), the team got to work on Skullgirls. Initial impressions were favorful - people liked Ahad’s unique character designs, the fluid animation, and the solid engine Mike Z built - but upon release, there were some concerns. The time and money needed to develop each character meant a starting roster of only eight characters, a far cry from other fighting games (the original MvC had 15 characters in 1998), and due to the team trying to get the game out, there was no in-game move list. Some were also concerned that the cast, consisting entirely of women, was too fanservice-filled, although Bartholow said that the characters were just attractive women who could fight as opposed to characters using their sexuality in battle (Ahad said that sex wasn’t his main focus, he just wanted to have monster girls fight each other). The team at Reverge Labs stressed that they would continue to update the game, with plans to add DLC if the game sold well enough. Good thing nothing could go wro-
Everything goes wrong
Alongside publishing Skullgirls, Autumn Games and Konami had previously published a karaoke game called Def Jam RapStar. Unfortunately, around March 2012, the time Skullgirls released, both parties were at the end of several lawsuits made against them - one argued that Autumn and Konami did not get the rights to some of the songs used in the game, while another claimed that the game was funded with a bank loan which Autumn Games was unable to pay back. The result of these costly lawsuits was that Autumn was unable to pay Reverge the money made from Skullgirls - this led to the entire Reverge team being laid off around July, and the future of the game in the air.
And so, the team decided on a whim to reconvene as a new development studio, Lab Zero Games. At a fundraiser for breast cancer research which included a fighting game tournament, Mike Z revealed the first DLC fighter and promised that new information about her and the team would be posted soon. This would turn out to be an Indiegogo fundraising campaign that asked for $150,000 to develop the first DLC fighter, with more characters promised if people backed enough.
In the end, $829,829 was raised in the campaign, enough to fund five DLC characters, a bevy of stages and voice packs, and other features. It was quickly becoming a cult classic.
The Skullgirls Curse
And so work on Skullgirls DLC was underway. However, a variety of events happened to befall Lab Zero during development, some causing controversy and others just annoying the team. Some dubbed this “The Skullgirls Curse”. So let’s go over some of them:
So as you can see, Skullgirls had a menagerie of problems and issues during its dev time. However, their Skullgirls curse seemed to have faded away, as they had a new game in store.
If I was Indivisible
Indivisible was a new project of Lab Zero, announced in 2015 as Skullgirls DLC production was nearing an end. Billed as a platformer RPG similar to games like Valkyrie Profile, it would tell the story of Ajna, a young girl whose town is stricken by tragedy and she finds out that she’s a portion of the god of creation, who has grown discontent with the world and wishes to remake it anew. Its Indiegogo campaign focused on Incarnations, party members who came from a variety of cultures, religions, and demographics not usually represented in popular culture. And as you can see by the fact that it got over two million dollars in funding, people were excited to see what Lab Zero could do. They even got enough funding to get Studio Trigger, of anime fame, to create the opening for the game.
Of course, it wouldn’t be Lab Zero without the occasional issue here and there. As shown above, some Incarnations were changed or scrapped during development, which irked some who backed because of that character specifically (not naming any names, but look in the incarnation list and see if you notice any). Backer characters were included again, and although there were more places to add them so they didn’t look out of place, you still had the occasional few that did. Critics liked the art and presentation of the game, but disliked some gameplay issues: the second half of the game became a cakewalk once you progressed far enough, it was a bit of a pain to go from one end of the map to another, especially for side quests, and a bunch of party members simply weren’t complete. Most egregiously of all, the Nintendo Switch version of the game was ported by a different company and released before Lab Zero was even aware of it - which forced them to scramble again to patch it up so it was on par with other consoles.
Still, it was a better situation they were in than when Skullgirls started. They had a legit publisher in 505 Games, people were satisfied with the base game, and Mike Z mentioned how the base game would continue to be refined with gameplay changes, small additions, and guest incarnations from other indie games. NBC even announced that Indivisible would be adapted into a television program for their Peacock streaming service. Things were looking up for Lab Zero.
Everything goes wrong... AGAIN
During the production of Indivisible, Alex Ahad was let go by Lab Zero. Not much is mentioned about it except that he was growing increasingly hostile, making it difficult to work with him, and his art was not meeting the standards for the game. He left, tried to sue Lab Zero, and eventually agreed to a sizable settlement. Mariel became the lead artistic director in his stead, and the art team had to be rearranged to compensate.
Now, as Lab Zero was preparing to transition from being employee-owned, Mike Z was made the temporary head of the studio. In June of 2020, Mike Z did an “I can’t breathe” joke during a Skullgirls livestream just days after George Floyd’s death - he later apologized for this, claiming he was trying to bring attention to the issue. Soon, more people provided proof that Mike Z has had a history of sexual harassment. Kinuko chimes in as well, noting that while she tolerated inappropriate behavior for years, when she talked to Mike Z about it, he blamed her for his actions. She talked with others in the team, who came to the conclusion that Zaimont had treated all of them like this. Some Lab Zero employees resigned on their own, while others pushed for Zaimont to resign. However, as Mike was still head of the studio, he dissolved the studio board and laid off the rest of the staff.
So where does that leave everyone?
There’s probably something I’ve missed in all of this, but yep. I backed them twice, both for Skullgirls and Indivisible. I don’t regret it, and I’m looking forward to whatever Future Club does, but I won’t lie - I’ll always miss what could have been.
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Replaying Chasing You: clues, thoughts and predictions 🕵

My fellow detective friends, I know that all of us are still very confused by the last episode. Because I'm way too invested in this story I took the time to replay S1 and S2 to see what we missed or if there even was anything to miss, haha. 😀
Let's start with the big twist none of us saw coming - no, I'm not talking about Edward being the deceiver, that was always a strong probability, cute hair or not. But him being there from the beginning is something that never crossed my mind. Oswald, the unseen butler, take the stage!
S1E1: Oswald is mentioned by Martha
Martha refers to Oswald but after choosing a room the narration cuts right to the part where he has already left. Not fair! Let's compare with what Agatha suddenly remembered in the last episode:
S2E9: Oswald flashback
I'm not saying that all of us would have recognized him later, but it would have been a nice surprise if we had the chance. But that's not enough, apparently Edward was also the reason why Agatha almost got busted by the watchmaker in Pateley Bridge:
S1E4: The scene at the watchmaker's office
No indication of her ever hearing something from outside the office. But later, by the great power of memory, she recalls the following:
S2E9: Flashback to the watchmaker's office
Apparently Edward stayed at Annette's manison for about 6 months and even managed to build a good enough relationship with Charles to successfully recommend the antipsychotic drug Risperidone to him.
As I mentioned before I'm not a fan of the "evil mastermind who was there from the beginning" solution. The fact that all the 'hints' happened backstage still bothers me because we as the readers never got a chance to find the culprit on our own. I know it's Ursa's story but as a fan of classic detective fiction I can't help but feel at least a little bit cheated.
What about Edward's motives? Is he really just out for revenge because of his father's accident and Annette's terrible indifference? We learned that Lucas Cadogan and Annette were selling stolen antiques together 20 years ago, but ever since Lucas' accident Annette's business has been clean. She only started her shemes again two years prior to S1, and it's said that she was planning to hit the Cadogan business (K.D. Gun Company) hard. Bold move, girl! What if Lucas is actually part of Edward's revenge team?
S2E9: What happend after you snapped, Papa Cadogan?
Loosening the chandelier was definitely an attempt to kill Agatha, but everything after that was more likely done to scare her: the stuff at the London hotel, kidnapping our friends, pushing her of the cliff (Brigitte said there were no stones underwater and Agatha couldn't have died)... Why so inconsistent? I'm still not sure if that was all just Edward's doing or if his father or his brother or their long-lost triplet might be involved, but we'll find out soon.
Let's continue with all the other suspicious people.
Criminal minds: Eve and Ellia
Despite both of them still being shady mafia criminals, I guess we can trust them for now. Well, if we ignore the fact that they only started to get close to Agatha because their bosses/grandmothers told them to 😄 By the way, anyone else wondering why Eve's father is mentioned that often?
In my replay I managed to get both of their support by taking all of their relationship improvements - 5 are enough for Eve if we're just counting the "Your relationship with Eve improved" prompts (be aware that there are other prompts as well), but not for Ellia 😅 I had to restart S2 AGAIN and managed to get him on my side with 7 pro-relationship choices (again, just counting the explicit prompts).
Mother knows best: Olivia (and Gustav)
I'm undecided about Olivia because Alexander was so angry at her in S1 and her intentions for getting him out of the country are still shady. As for Gustav, we can assume that he's a cop like Alexander's father Ulrik was and he's still close with Oliva after all those years. We know they sent Frederick to England to find out if Annette's business was legit, and in S2E9 we learned that Gustav called Anna and asked her about the sheme because he tried to bust her for two years. Why do they want to blow Annette's cover and what will Olivia do when Agatha inherits the business?
Where did you go, Frederick?
Well, he was never seen again after the ball in S2E1. He didn't pick up after a freaking chandelier fell on his protégé, and his phone was silent when our friends got kidnapped and Agatha needed help with her rescue mission. Does he even know that Eve and Anna deceived him? Why didn't he go back to Sweden with our gang? Neither Olivia nor Alexander mentioned him up until now, but I guess they'll have to talk about him if the subject of Alexander leaving Sweden ever comes up between mother and son. In S1E10 Frederick said that he owes Alexander's father his life and Ursa hinted that we will find out more about that eventually, so I guess he could be back in the S2 finale or in S3.
​
Predictions for S2E10 and S3:
My guess is that S3 revolves around Agatha claiming the inheritance and deciding the future of her aunt's business. I really hope that collecting all the business points (sometimes called entrepreneur points) will benefit in the end - so far I counted 6. Hopefully we'll get to choose who we want to work with and what kind of business we want to run (mafia or legit). I can see Agatha investing in good causes like the open-air museum in Sweden, but the option to go full gangster could be appealing to some people too. But first things first - will we even get the inheritance?
S1E3: Annette's lawyer reads her last will
Sidenote: I also noticed that the timeline is somehow off: S1 starts with Annette's birthday on April 21st and in S2E4 we're celebrating Walpurgis Night which is on April 30th. That means everything up to this point happend in just 9 days which is pretty crazy (and doesn't even add up if you count the days while playing the story, but let's ignore that).
Talking about Anthony Harrison, Annette's lawyer: Has anyone checked up on him lately? In S2E7 the hot mean stranger in the car mentioned he visited Anthony and that the lawyer "wasn't eager to cooperate", but Agatha didn't mind, haha. She thinks of him again while making her first investment in S2E8, but still no worries about his well-being. Poor guy!
We know that Dylan Boston, Ellia's friend and a dealer at the casino, is Annette's and Edgar's son and therefore the rightful heir. Ursa stated the following about him: "If everything goes according to plan, he will initiate a very interesting turn of events and will appear at the very same moment when everyone forgets about him". That's definitely a plotline for S3 and I can't wait to see how it'll play out!
As for our kissing cousins, it's hinted that Dante and Eliza will only be back if we have a close relationship with them at the end of S1 - I think they could maybe supoort our claim regarding the inheritance, but they won't challenge the will.
That leaves us with the the worst uncle of all time, Charles. I guess we will see him again for the sake of closure, and let's not forget that he was after something in the library safe. I hope he'll go to prison for his crimes. Even if Annette's death was an accident because he was under the influence of Risperidone, he still pushed Agatha into a well, colluded with Martha and the commissioner and then tried to kill Agatha again - these are not mistakes but absolutely intentional atrocities.
​
Well, that's it for today! I know this may sound critical but let me assure you that I still love this messy and hilarious story to bits, I just like to play detective and over-analyze 😉 Please let me know what you think and how you want S3 to play out.
TL;DR: Everyone is sus, the story is messy but I still adore CY so much and I can't wait for the next episodes!
submitted by WaystarKatten to RomanceClub [link] [comments]

True Story Time

Ok, forgive the formatting. This was originally a greentext post for all the /b/tards at 4chan. It's also a long read but if you can get past that then it is actually a quite interesting story that happened to me years ago.
be 22 active duty air force assigned to Nellis in Las Vegas not disclosing job, but no stranger to weapons and tactics get pulled in to supervisor's office one day told I've just been "voluntold" to participate in a training exercise with DOD no other information given other than reporting instructions pretty much any question I asked was answered with "I have no fucking idea " report to conference room at base hotel next morning per instruction see about 12 other guys from my unit also voluntold to be there five guys enter room in civilian clothes introduce themselves as the "WHITEBOX" Group Assume it's an acronym for something, but never explained told we will be upgrading our security clearances hours of paperwork, only told we are participating in a force on force exercise released back to our unit crack jokes about how the exercise is a lie and we will be experimented on return to regular job and time passes eventually assume that it was canceled and forget the whole thing
about 2 months later supervisor pulls me aside and tells me that I need to report to a briefing the next day says it’s about "some WHITEBOX exercise" has no idea what it is and doesn't seem to care. once again report to base hotel with the other 12 guys WHITEBOX guys show up and pick us up in a van driven off base to some random office building and escorted into the offices of the Department of Energy, WTF? mystery only deepens, what the fuck is happening? what if this actually is some evil experimental shit more hours of paperwork and security/safety briefings by random suits had to fill out and sign a non-disclosure agreement and that threatened arrest if violated required to turn in cell phones and any other electronic devices in our possession our cell phones get locked in a cabinet while the office phone in the room gets unplugged WHITEBOX guys finally return and fire up a power point briefing first slide just titled WHITBOX Exercise 0X slide also labeled in bold red letters "CLASSIFIED TOP SECRET / NOFORN / ORCON this is really starting to feel serious
WHITEBOX Exercise finally explained told that for the next two weeks we will be role playing as OPFOR (opposing forces) we will try to attack and penetrate a DOD facility and carry out a simulated act of sabotage facility is protected by a contracted privately owned security force security group is required by the DOD to carry out this exercise in order to audit their protection every couple of years if we succeed, security company fails the audit and looses the contract the exercise is the conclusion of a two week inspection of the security contractors and their procedures every exercise a random military unit is chosen as OPFOR "reminded that we are silent professionals and that this isn’t something we should be advertising shaving wavers granted and civilian attire only FUCKYEAH.jpg power point scrolls to a page with a google earth screenshot on it instantly recognize the picture it's Area 51 holyfuckingshit.exe are we are being told to break into Area 51? can't be real random unit bro pipes up out of nowhere "Is that fucking Area 51?" we are all fucking stoked later told not to call it Area 51 as that just makes you a total chode Groom Lake, Paradise Ranch, or Homey Airbase are the acceptable names many insiders simply refer to it as “The Base” also reminded of the possible legal action via UCMJ if we go around telling everyone about it One of the WHITEBOX guys is now our designated "insider threat" exercise is designed to simulate that someone inside has been comprised by a foreign government he will provide any information that we ask for that he has knowledge of or access to other WHITEBOX guys handle will handle exercise logistics they will provide any weapons or equipment that we request to carry out mission "within reason" told this is not a COD loadout screen
ground rules established... will only be provided with weapons that we are certified to carry weapons will be armed with blank rounds or completely empty also no vehicles will be utilized by us within the DOD property landmarkers simulating road chases are not authorized our insertion is simulated so we will already be escorted/processed through various checkpoints and dropped off near the base no impractical equipment requests, so no tanks, helos, surveillance drones, or scud missiles, lol any explosives we intend to simulate will be assessed by WHITEBOX so if we want to blow the perimeter fences we will tell them before hand, they will calculate the weight of the bang we would need, it would be simulated by rocks, and then someone would need to hump the weight number 1 rule established and stressed with a very serious tone we will be escorted by WHITEBOX evaluators at all times within the DOD landmarkers at no point are any of us authorized to be alone in the facility actual security is not laxed because of the exercise, nor is this a free pass to roam security personnel can still use real force in the event that we deviate from the established protocols shown various pictures within the airbase that most will never get to see a specific hangar is designated as our target building. we will need to gain access to that hangar and carry out an act of sabotage for our sabotage we will need to ///REDACTED/// obviously we won't be doing it for real so we will actually need complete a random task inside the hangar task will be designed to be as complex and time consuming as the real thing all while being hunted by the security force insider threat briefing continues, various elements of the base security procedures and day to day operations explained however, get the impression that the chosen source is someone with a generic admin position and is not actually involved with security we are also encouraged to do our own research and scour the interwebz for info about the base told to supply the URLs to WHITEBOX if we find anything of interest. sorry if we got your Alex Jones or Art Bell conspiracy blogs taken offline briefing finally concludes, we are reminded of our non-disclosure policy and taken back to Nellis and dismissed for the day
next day we all meet at Creech Air Force Base in Indian Springs, Nevada we will be using this location to build our plan of attack and do rehearsals/dry runs it's actually pretty cool because it's on us to plan our op, just a bunch of random Airmen periodically grill our insider with questions and start asking our other WHITEBOX guys for gear we tried to have our insider take pictures of the interior of our target hangar, but he got caught IRL he would be arrested and interrogated by the feds, and the whole op would be dead instead though the guys that caught him received kudos from the inspectors, and he just tells us nope have to rely on a whiteboard sketch of the inside decide to keep it simple, M4 riffles only however I am certified on the Barret M82 .50 cal. we decide that I will carry that heavy mother fucker as well as an M4 and provide overwatch from the distance kind of bummed out because im not going inside it will be on me to neutralize certain security positions that we have previous identified we remind our WHITEBOX guys that the M82 is an anti-material weapon with the ability to disable vehicles they tell us that I will just need to call my shots to the evaluator that I will be partnered with he will radio to the vehicles that they are destroyed and will need to stop driving guess I should mention that is also part of the disadvantage we have we will all be paired with WHITEBOX evaluators who will sort of act as referees during this simulated battle however they will all be wearing bright orange reflective vest identifying them as exercise officials that really fucks our ability to stay hidden and stealthy, but it is what it is also should mention that this is a daytime raid despite our objections sounds like they are setting us up for failure, but they remind us not to think of it like that this is all being done just so the evaluators can get a good look at the security's incident response procedures it's not an unannounced drill, the military doesn't really like to do that kind of thing especially with large scale exercises such as this everyone on the base know we are coming, there's no element of surprise here except with what kind of attack we prep it would be a real hot clusterfuck if the security contractors failed the audit heads would roll, people would get fired, and numerous officers would be relieved of command I still get to attack Area 51 so don't care as this is the coolest thing I've done in the military
our plan is starting to come together over the days decide to sacrifice one of us in a suicide bomb attack figure out which of us is the most "FNG" or lowest ranking and make him do it he will approach one of the ECPs (entry points to the base) on foot wearing a rucksack loaded with rocks (make-believe explosives) he will be wearing a uniform and will identify himself as Air Force and will franticly yell that he needs help we don't anticipate that he will make it that far or that the security will actually swallow this ruse however his goal is to get as close as he can to the ECP and yell allah ackbar and release his dead man's switch and try to take out what he can his evaluatoescort will drop a GBS (ground burst simulator) when he detonates GBS is a little miniature explosive device that just makes a really loud boom anyone who’s been through any type of military training is familiar with them, they are used to add stress and create excitement we are hoping this will be a distraction and will get as much security as possible to converge on that location the rest of us will assault from the other side of the base and try to breach the perimeter several of us will also be rucking explosive rocks for the breach chose a breach point that will have us crossing only a minimal portion of the flightline (place where aircraft operate) if we successfully simulate breaching the perimeter the exercise will be paused and we will be inprocessed through the ECP and brought into the base exercise will resume and we will continue to assault towards the target hangar I will stay outside in my sniper position and try to smoke what I can inside the hangar the team will cover the doors with simulated claymores and take up cover two guys will carry out the simulated sabotage act while the rest cover the doors WHITEBOX doesn't have any inert claymores to provide so the will be simulated with small weighted ammo cans the weight is really starting to become problematic so we abandon the claymores and decide to just cover the doors with firepower would really help if we had a vehicle, but not happening to be fair, vehicles wouldn't make it that close to the base if they tried to attack IRL armored or not
week one down, plan looking solid considering how much of our attack is simulated two weeks of planning is actually excessive not complaining though cause two weeks of hanging out and smoking and joking compared to normal work at Nellis only downside is the hour drive back and forth each day to Creech AFB casino right outside that base with awesome steak and eggs so not too bad though one of the WHITEBOX guys tells us he's actually employed by the Department of Energy he doesn't actually work at Groom Lake, he works at the Nevada Test Range the massive amount of Nevada landscape that is restricted and owned by the feds is actually impressive contrary to popular myth there is road access to Groom Lake via the adjacent test range, but not too many people actually make that drive. the 737 shuttle from McCarran Airport is how everyone gets there since the drive is long as fuck the main paved road through Rachel Nevada that all the tourist flock to doesn't really have any operational use anymore allegedly we will be driving there through the test range via a convoluted series of paved and dirt roads route is CLASSIFIED TOP SECRET, not kidding
DOE dude gives us a tour of the test range one day load cases of water in back of van drive to Mercury Nevada and stop at checkpoint inprocessed inside, get pictures taken and issued escorted visitor passes also required to wear radiation badges once inside get to see all that shit from The Hills Have Eyes, fake towns that were blown up with atomic bombs not as intact as they are portrayed in films though, they are pretty rekt or deconstructed show us a massive crater called the Sedan Crater in the 50's they experimented with using atomic bombs for mass excavation projects hoping they could just nuke the ground and build shit instead of fucking around with bulldozers pretty stupid and impractical but they didn't know any better back then they buried an atomic bomb a half a mile underground and blew it up Sedan Crater left behind as a result and the fucking thing is huge. they allegedly herded cattle down to the bottom of the crater afterwards to test the post fallout effects pretty fuckin savage, and it was actually stunning to look at two hour drive to Groom Lake though endless desert roads now see why we loaded the water, we’d be pretty fucked if the van broke down or got stuck get first distant look at the base without having to enter their checkpoints holyshit.mp4 very few people get to actually see what we are seeing to be honest though, looks like any other air force base I've ever seen except smaller besides the obvious fact that it is in the middle of bum fuck nowhere and its main runway is long as fuck also realize one of the reasons they didn't want us operating vehicles most roads are dirt and the entire lake bed is surrounded by "moon dust" everywhere moon dust is the ultra-fine sand found in certain parts of the desert with the consistency of flour it's also a total bitch to drive in and the security patrols getting stuck is a somewhat frequent occurrence told that they even have some of the AAFES fast food joints there that you find on any other base imagine working at a Burger King that you need a Top Secret security clearance for, how the fuck does that work??? noticed that despite being authorized to be here, we are still being watched by distant security patrols wonder if they know we are the bad guys that are going to be attacking the joint make some minor adjustments to the plan since the google earth pictures lack some detail conclude tour and take the 3 to 4 hour drive back home, most of us slept in the van
arrive at Creech next day and see that more WHITEBOX guys have been added to the mix, now there's like 20 of them for the past two weeks they have been inspecting the security contractors and its procedures you can tell a lot of them are ex-military based off of language and the people that are dipping and spiting in empty water bottles the mood is light, all of the exercise planning is finished, nothing to do the last two days we managed to borrow an empty hangar at Creech and used it as a mockup of our target hangar to run rehearsals no longer asking our insider questions about security, instead start asking completely ridiculous questions about conspiracies for lulz accuse some of them of being reptilians to see how they react, some of them get legit uncomfortable before you go sounding off, doubt they are hiding anything, some folks just don’t get military humor one does, however, and shows us a velcro patch that he wears on his rucksack it's one of those standard patches you spot on a pilot’s flight suit that has the name, rank, branch, and blood type his blood type seriously says reptilian it's obvious that they embrace and poke fun at the reputation this base has, in fact they thrive off of it
the day finally fucking arrives, time to attack this bitch wake up at 0400 and drive an hour to Creech dressed to kill decide to wear DCU "desert combat uniform" pants and a sand t shirt with my personally owned Blackhawk tactical vest to carry spare M4 mags sometimes the military issues some real shitty gear so our unit is somewhat lax and allows us to personally buy our own better equipment if it has command approved use and doesn't break SOPs also wear my empty gas mask pouch attached to my hip and use it to carry spare M82 .50 cal mags also wear a black turban for lulz that I bought off an ANA (Afghani Northern Alliance) dude downrange used to have a guile suite but it got lost on a deployment so that's a no go unfortunately arm up with an M4 with M68 red dot sight and attach a BFA "blank firing adapter" to the muzzle, and load six mags of .556 blanks also provided with my trusty Barret .50 M82 and five mags there is no BFA for the Barret that I'm familiar with so carry that with empty mags, guess I get to cheat with the weight load up in the vans with WHITEBOX team and drive another hour to Mercury get inprosscessed through security checkpoint and receive visitor badges for the test range drive another 2 hour on random roads passing more checkpoints /// REDACTED /// forced to surrender cell phones, personally owned electronic devices and CAC cards (military ID cards) again receive our escorted visitor passes for Groom Lake and now continue down some of the most forbidden roads in American history start unloading as close to our start point as the terrain allows and hump the rest of the distance on foot with our escorts suicide attack bro hangs back in the van with other escorts and is driven to his start point the terrain is favorable and allows us to set up out of sight hence why we chose the spot I break off and try to set up my nest at my chosen OP "observation point" as discreetly as possible not really stealthy cause I'm being followed by a guy wearing an orange reflective vest that says STAN EVAL and he's just casually walking he tells me to set up the Barret, but just simulate your shots by firing the M4 blanks now in a spot where I can observe base activity and provide cover fire for the breach, but I am also the most easy to spot sniper ever now wait for confirmation that our distraction on the other side has happened, taking a real long fucking time
my escort's radio chimes to life and starts talking "attention all WHITEBOX, we now have proper authentication via CASTLE ROCK for initiation of a detachment level exercise" voice on radio proceeds to spit out a long winded exercise safety briefing realize it's been about 40 minutes and we are just now fucking starting another 10 minutes and finally get word that suicide bro is approaching his target escorts all inform us that the security force is responding to reports of an explosion outside of the ECP later find out that suicide bro was stopped and challenged at gun point about 50 meters outside of ECP by a mounted patrol he then just fuck it and started sprinting towards the ECP until they opened fire with blanks and his escort set off the GBS he actually managed to take out the vehicle that stopped him and create several casualties (we gave him the heaviest explosive rocks loadout) overall our distraction was pretty fucking successful give it a another minute or two and finally start shooting and calling my shots to my escort/evaluator he's talking on his radio and relaying my simulated violence, "inform Merc-17 that they are dead from sniper fire" etc... I have predetermined targets to engage based off of what poses the biggest threat to the breach team I actually do some damage and get confirmation of casualties from my escort it's about a 600 meter run to the base perimeter in the open desert so it's on me to try and clear their path as much as I can the plan is to try to lure some security vehicles to our position then eliminate them with the Barret while they are en route the dead vehicles can then serve as points of cover for the breach team as they assault towards the base breach team was also aiming to see if they could snag any security radios from the dead patrols so we can monitor their comms didn't really work out that way however, in the end we simply didn't have all the info about the anticipated security response without giving away too many sensitive details, we all got ambushed by the security from unexpected locations forced to abandon my nest and the Barret to start moving towards another location to back up the breach team that was under fire trade some shots with security until my escort finally announces "ok dude, you're dead. go ahead and lay down" that's it, game over
play dead for about 20 minutes while security cleans up the area breach team gets rekt, we managed to get within 100 meters of the perimeter couple of security dudes approach me and perform a dead combatant body search on me it's a specific type of search designed to search a dead body while also checking for possible explosive booby traps pretend to be dead and let security dudes run my pockets finally one of the evaluators shouts "PauseEx" (pause exercise) we got fucking annihilated, no chance this attack was going to be successful our evaluators tell us that everyone did a great job, HOWEVER.... we are going to continue the exercise because they didn't get the chance to observe much of the internal security components we are going to resume the exercise assuming that we were actually able to get inside that target hangar this will give the evaluators the opportunity to observe the security's recap and recov procedures (re-capture and recovery) we all get magically resurrected from the dead I realize that I am actually going inside Groom Lake! Fucking Awesome...
spend about 15 minutes policing up the area for brass which means wandering around and picking up spent cartridges board vans and get driven around to ECP. realize that only half of the security force is playing in this exercise the rest are still armed with live weapons and are still performing regular protection duties forced to show our visitor passes, names and badge numbers are compared against a master list that the security has /// REDACTED /// /// REDACTED /// notice a homemade sign hanging on the wall at the security center it’s got a picture of an alien with a red X through it that says "no extraterrestrial entities or relics beyond this point" like I said earlier, everyone enjoys the reputation this base has drive to our target hangar, holy fuck! I am now inside Area 51 use of blanks not authorized indoors, everyone is told to clear out weapons rest of the exercise will use simulated firing, the equivalent of pointing your empty weapon at someone and yelling bang sadly not the first time I trained like this, military does it all the time it’s ridiculous and awkward every time, looks like a bunch of kids playing backyard soldiers with sticks security has already reset its posture, they know we are attacking but doesn't know the building we are hitting we all enter the hangar, get the impression that it doesn't actually get used IRL anymore reeks of mildew and no power inside, dust everywhere in the center there is a pickup truck covered with a tarp and roped off with red rope and stanchions, signs posted identifying it as a controlled area told that this is a simulated military asset and this is what we are sabotaging WHITEBOX evaluator pulls a box out of the bed of the truck remember when I said we will have to do a complex and time consuming task to simulate our act of sabotage? it’s a fucking Star Wars Lego kit! I shit you not! evaluators tell us we will need start building it and reach page 12 in the instructions without errors or mistakes kind of wish we went with our earlier plan and brought claymores cause I spotted some sweet chokepoints outside the building to set them up also wish we had the idea of bringing padlocks and chains so we could lock down the hangar and make life more difficult for the security force set up our spots to cover the doors, we are well versed with building clearing tactics so we know what spots to cover to make it hard
WHITEBOX evaluator authenticates over the radio with someone by passing letters and numbers back and forth, process known as sign/countersign voice on radio announces that the detachment level WHITEBOX exercise has resumed showtime! Two unit bros start opening the Lego kit and sorting parts me and the suicide bro weren't supposed to be in this hangar or even on the base to begin with so we don't have points to cover inside come up with idea and ask one of the escorts if we can go out the back on to the flightline plan to walk to two separate buildings in opposite directions and see if we can create distractions evaluators approve the plan, but tell us we can't approach or enter other buildings, nor approach any parked aircraft decide to leave firearms and my tac vest behind for clever reasons if we are unarmed the security will most likely apprehend us, and search us this is more time consuming than just shooting us and will keep them away from the hangar longer exit the back of the hangar on to the flightline and just start casually walking down the tarmac with my escort eventually hear the sound of police sirens in the distance getting louder, hear they come! get the urge to start sprinting but decide not to since it would most likely result in me being tackled on the pavement, fuck that later realize distant sirens are actually responding to hangar after reports of a silent alarm being received so much for the distraction plan
decide not to return to hangar since there is not much I can do unarmed, and continue walking down flightline all the parked aircraft I see are just normal military aircraft, although some do seem to have “enhancements” or cosmetic features that I haven’t seen before ask my escort where they keep all the flying saucers, he smirks and just replies "underground" wonder if there are actually any subterranean levels to this base, suppose a lot of these buildings could support that ask my escort if there are really underground levels, he facetiously says “who knows” white pickup truck with police lights approaching fast pretend not to notice and keep walking voice starts barking at me over a loudspeaker "stop right there! do not move! get your hands up! security mercs climbing out of vehicle with rifles drawn, don't see magazines in the riffles, they are part of the drill they actually try to challenge both of us, escort has to remind them that he is out of play security goons bark at me, "face away from me NOW! keep your hands up!" they are actually pretty intimidating, I comply proceed to have me lay on the ground face down with my arms and legs stretched out yell at me to put my hands in the small of my back, palms together, fingers up big black guy approaches me and actually puts his knee on my neck George Floyd style "don't fight me, don't resist me, or you are gonna get hurt" he says puts me in zip ties and picks me up, see other guards still have weapons drawn on me overall whole thing similar to a gangbanger getting rolled up by the cops black guy puts me in some weird and uncomfortable arm hold tells me to start walking while he steers my body with the arm hold and walks me off the flightline taken to a grassy area, get put back on the ground and searched and questioned /// REDACTED /// I try to bluff and say that the hangar will blow if anyone goes inside, see if that stalls them he tries to question me about it, but I can tell he’s not biting, I decide to tone it down and stay quiet cause the dude really looks like he’s going to fuck me up actually overhear his partner talking on the radio, he’s telling others to exercise caution and beware of possible explosive booby traps lights out, realize that someone put a bag over my head evaluator calls out "EndEX" (end exercise) all portions of the exercise are terminated, it's all over
black security guy cuts my zip ties, takes off the hood and sets me loose later find out that security retook the hangar with no problems my guys inside struggled with the Legos since it was so dark and hard to see instead of immediately going in, security tossed inert CS gas canisters inside none of us brought gas mask since it was something our insider failed to mention evaluator let us build legos for another 30 seconds then yelled “GAS, GAS, GAS” unit bros in the hangar were told to lay on the ground and pretend to be incapacitated security swarmed the place with gas mask and guns, kicked away weapons they got a similar treatment to what I received on the flightline and got hauled out of there we all regroup at the base's main visitor center for the AAR (after action review) overall security responded quite well, only some points were critiqued, nothing failing smoke cigarettes and crack jokes back and forth with the security dudes, finally get to see the human side of the guy who snagged me on the flightline tell him he’s one scary mofo, he smiles and we shake hands security dudes leave, head to base theater for full debrief WHITEBOX guys thank us for our participation, time to head home wait a sec, let’s see some fucking aliens WHITEBOX guy smirks and says he’ll give us the dollar tour another day drive back to Mercury knowing full well that we are not going to hear back from them, especially about a tour return radiation badges to the Mercury office told that if we never hear back from them that it’s a good sign told that if they do call us then our Tricare (military health coverage) will get put to good use whole experience was cool as fuck one of the evaluators hands out business cards for ///REDACTED/// and tells us to look them up when we separate from the military starting pay for the security force is pretty fucking dope and only certain military backgrounds are considered for it return to Indian Springs and hit up the casino for drinks with the original 5 WHITEBOX guys ask if any of the prior OPFOR units actually pulled it off and broke in told that a group of CCT guys from the 24th STS was the closest anyone’s ever gotten but even they still failed makes sense, I’ve heard that those dudes are legit operators tell war stories and get drunk actually receive a letter of appreciation from the Air Force Test Center Detachment 3 from Edwards Air Force Base, California about a month later it thanks me for my participation in an exercise but makes no mention of Groom Lake my participation in a vaguely worded “DOD exercise” actually gets mentioned as a bullet in my annual performance report mfw I attacked Area 51
tldr - me and my coworkers "broke" into Area 51 with automatic weapons so we could put together an X-wing starfighter out of Legos
Thanks for reading. I should mention that I have intentionally withheld a lot of details and even altered a few. I'm not trying to blow up anyone’s spot and compromise shit. Just wanted to share a true story about some cool shit I got to do in my youth. For example WHITEBOX is a completely fabricated name while the whole operation actually went under another random weird name. It still ranks as some of the most cloak and dagger shit I got to do in the military. I actually don’t really tell too many people because it is no one’s business and no one would believe me anyways. I finally figured that enough time has passed and like I said, I have specially tailored this story to avoid leaking any sensitive shit. Overall the base was actually kind of underwhelming. I didn’t really see any earth shattering secrets there. All of the alien and reptilian conspiracy theories were openly mocked and made fun of there. It’s really just a base that gets an extra layer of discreetness and physical security for more sensitive assets and projects to be kept there. The CIA, JSOC and other intel gangs from Washington even have offices out there because it’s just a quiet tucked away place to do business. I will say that their security is no joke and that they have some truly fascinating techniques to detect and deny intruders. Hope you enjoyed.
submitted by mindst0rm30 to conspiracy [link] [comments]

I was the doppleganger

I worked at a tattoo shop in Arizona, across the river from Laughlin NV. It was February and people were spending tax returns on tattoos, I don't remember the exact day but it was crazy busy. I got stuck with a family and tattooed until about 3am. They were generous, after all said and done I had $2000+ dollars. My wife had been waiting all night for me so in a spur of the moment decision we decided to go across the river to the casinos and spend money! I don't gamble, don't really drink and just never been interested in that stuff, but that night it sounded fun. As soon as we got out of the car at the first casino is when I noticed things were odd. The valet runs up to me and looks kinda confused why I'm in my car... like he even looked at my car and made a joke about "oh, this way you can probably just drive around". I was even more confused, I told him I would park my own car and did so. As we walked into the casino people were looking at me, like backing up and making room for me to walk by and nodding at me and just acting weird. My wife was like "WTF man? Why is everyone treating you like this?" At first I wrote it off to people just being nice and doing their jobs and whatnot. But it kept getting weirder... people kept staring at me and holding doors. My wife is asking me if I have some secret life or something?? It didn't register at the time, but one of the bartenders said "it's strange to see you here this time of day". It was like 4am, I thought it was small talk. For hours I gambled roulette and kept winning, I never played roulette in my life. All night/morning people kept staring at me, looking away when I locked eyes. I even like walked up to some dude that was looking at me and said "what's up?" And he was like " oh hey bro I just noticed you I'm sorry"...I was shocked, this guy was legit nervous to be talking to me. I'm not famous, or a gangster, or nothing. We thought maybe because I tattooed a lot of people, but I usually recognize clients and they always treat me like a friend. I saw this weird old slot machine that only gave away silver dollars, but it only took silver dollars. I was excited, so I went to find where I could get silver dollars to put in the machine and the cashier was like " wha?" I told her it was for the machine and she was adamant that there is no machine like that...I went back to find it and couldn't. It was gone... people started bumping into me and when I looked at them nobody cares anymore. I think I was the doppleganger, there were more little experiences but in a nutshell that's it. It seemed to end also when I noticed the daylight...I don't know...I've been thinking about it for a long time and it still bothers me. I don't look like anyone famous or infamous, I actually have a piercing through the bridge of my nose that makes me fairly unique and would be hard to get confused with someone else. Is this considered a glitch? Like I said there's more to it, I'm not sure if I'm the right place but I'll answer any questions I can. Thanks for your time.
submitted by GhostOfTheApocalypse to Glitch_in_the_Matrix [link] [comments]

Try to die with open eyes

I work in a small bar in Reno. We’re away from the casinos downtown that attract the most tourists, but we’re tucked away near a couple of bigger, separate casinos. We’re a hole in the wall but we do get our share of people wandering in, taking a break from the busy, crowded casinos they’re staying in. We’re also on a couple of major bus routes, so we get locals of all classes and descriptions. Mostly, though, we’re pretty quiet.
Especially these days. Shifts can be long and lonely.
So I wasn’t entirely sure how to feel one night last week when, about ten minutes before I could have closed for the night and two hours after the last customer left, a woman walked into the bar. Two hours of doing nothing had made me eager to leave, but these days it’s hard to turn down even a few potential tip dollars.
I bit down my irritation and greeted her with a smile. At least until I walked down the bar closer to her and got a good look at her face.
She was obviously distressed. Not actively, maybe, but she wore the shadows of exhaustion like dark makeup smeared under her eyes. She was rail thin, unkempt. Dark curling hair in a ponytail that didn’t look like it had seen a brush in a while. Clothes that looked well worn and not well washed. I would have thought she was a tweaker - we get those pretty often too, it’s Reno - but her eyes were clear enough and she didn’t seem to have the shakes. She seemed utterly exhausted.
She looked about thirty if you stood back and squinted. If you came close and met her eyes she looked about three hundred.
But hey, I’m a professional. I set a coaster in front of her and asked what she wanted.
“Shot of whiskey,” she said, and her voice rasped out of her like tires over gravel. “Highest proof you have.”
We’re not a high class joint, but we have a decent 100 proof. I poured her a shot and slid it over, and the second it was in her reach it was down her throat, and the empty glass slid back to me.
“Another one. Please.”
Fair enough. But the second shot vanished as fast as the first. She gestured for a third one, but I poured it a little more slowly.
“Bad day?” I asked, since acting like a therapist is, of course, part of the job.
She snorted, threw down the third shot, and seemed to realize I wasn’t going to keep them coming so fast. She sighed. “Can I get the same thing on the rocks? I’m just staying up the road, I’m not driving.”
I made the drink, feeling her eyes on me the whole time. This time I rang up the whole tab before I went back to her, and gave her the total. She slid a few big bills across to me, which confirmed at least that she wasn’t in withdrawal from anything, at least not for financial reasons.
As she sipped her drink, I debated whether I could go back and sit at the end of the bar and stare at my phone some more without threatening my tip.
She answered that for me by peering at me suddenly. “Do you think people have souls?”
Oh boy.
I put on that faux-thoughtful look I was so practiced at, the one that came to me the minute someone started spouting off about religion or politics or anything else I vowed not to have opinions about while I was on the clock.
“I don’t know,” I said, my standard response. “I’m not really a philosopher.”
She stared at me. “What do you think?”
For the record, I hate that kind of thing so much. I work in customer service. If you’re not one of the regulars I’ve waited on for the two years I’ve worked here, then I have no beliefs or opinions or anything else. I am an empty vessel meant to provide thoughtful nods and lots of alcohol. That’s it.
Still, she looked intense, and it was close enough to quitting time that I could be magnanimous. So I answered her for real.
“I think...there’s something about humanity that makes us different. Millions of species of animals on the planet, and none of them come anywhere near us in terms of society and art and culture. There’s something special inside of us. You could call that a soul, I guess.”
She nodded, looking satisfied. “You’re right. There is something inside of us. I don’t think it makes us special, though. I think it makes us damned.”
Oookay. I drew back a little, grabbing a rag to polish an already clean spot on the back bar. “Yeah, I’m not very religious or whatever, so.”
“I’m not talking about religion. I’m talking about what happens to us after we die.”
My eyebrows rose. “Is that not religion?”
“No. They’re wrong. Every one of them. Anyone who thinks we go to some shiny white afterlife, or a fiery hell, or we come back as a cow or whatever the fuck. Even the people who think we just dissolve into the air like pure energy. Even the people who think we die and that’s that, nothing but blackness and rest afterwards.”
“All of them are wrong, huh? Doesn’t leave many options.”
I don’t think she appreciated the lightness in my tone. But for fuck’s sake, I’m not paid to be a sounding board for people. Most of the time I just don’t care what my customers talk about. When they go right for the Big Issues I tend to blank out entirely.
“I died almost a year ago,” she said, her voice sharp. Before I could gently peel her drink from her clenched hand, she went on. “I got revived, but I was clinically dead for almost ten minutes.”
“Ah.” I smiled faintly. “I don’t know whether to say I’m sorry or congratulations on coming back.”
“Don’t say anything. It’s the worst thing that ever happened to me. I saw it, lady. I know what happens when we die. And it’s worse than any hell you could imagine.”
Admittedly, I was curious. Fifty-fifty on whether she was just a crackpot, but the tension in her voice and those shadows under her eyes...those were hard to deny.
So I went ahead and asked. “So...you saw...what? The real hell?”
“No. Hell is a fucking fairy tale. It’s bullshit. You know what happens to us when we die? Absolutely fucking nothing.”
“And that’s…bad?”
“I don’t mean nothing like everything goes black and that’s that. I mean nothing. It’s not like falling asleep, it’s not like a coma. Your body fucking dies, and your soul stays right where the fuck it is.” She took a deep draw of her whiskey. “I was dead for ten minutes. I died in the ambulance. Overdose,” she said, staring at me intently, waiting for me to judge it.
I didn’t. I wasn’t thinking much except that I wished I’d closed ten minutes earlier that night.
“I died with my eyes open. My body was gone, okay? Nothing, no feeling. No breath, no heartbeat. But I was stuck inside of it. I could see what was happening around me but not really understand it. I could hear things, but like I was underwater. And my...my soul or my energy or whatever the hell you want to call it...it knew. It understood. This was the beginning, not the end. I was going to be put in some cold storage, autopsied, dressed up fancy for some viewing, and put into the ground to rot. And I was going to be stuck inside of this prison for the whole thing. Our souls...we don’t leave. We don’t stop. We are going to last forever, stuck inside of rotting bodies buried in dark holes. No sights, no sounds, no chance to escape. It’s like…”
She looked up at me suddenly, snapping her fingers impatiently. “What is it? That thing where the doctors think someone’s a vegetable but they’re awake and aware the whole time?”
I shrugged. “I know what you’re talking about, though.”
“It’s that. But it’s forever.” She downed her drink and slid the glass across the counter. “Think I’m crazy if you want to, but I know. I lived it. I remember everything.”
I poured her a double, and poured a shot for myself. “Okay, but...there’s a lot of stories of people who died and came back, and I haven’t ever heard anything like that.”
“I know. I’ve looked everywhere.” She scowled. “You know what I think? I think that knowing you’re going to spend eternity trapped in your own body is fucking traumatizing, so people who experience even a minute of it block it out when they come back. But unlike them, my brain fucking hates me.”
Which, okay: mood. But jesus. “What about...I mean eventually your body’s not going to be there anymore.”
“Something will. Dust. Ashes if you’re cremated. In a million years, little specks of fucking carbon atoms.” She sighed. “I was there for ten minutes, months ago. And I can’t forget it. I can’t....function, just about. I can’t stop thinking that there have been billions of people on this planet, that every inch of ground we walk on is probably holding some poor souls prisoner. I pass a cemetery and can practically hear them screaming to be let go. There’s no end. I can’t sleep, because I lay there in the dark and know that I’ll spend eternity just that way. Blind and deaf and incapable of moving. Forever. Do you even….ten minutes of it felt like a year. A month will be enough to drive someone crazy. And we’ll be there for an eternity.”
She lofted her glass. “This, the drinking, is all I can do to make myself feel better for even an hour at a time. I swear, I’d be back on heroin in a second to try and forget it if I didn’t realize that I might overdose again, and end up in hell for good.” She shuddered. “I might have a few decades left in me, but it’s not like I can enjoy it. How could anyone?”
I had no answers, of course.
I didn’t believe her, not at the time. But she seemed utterly convinced, and it was a scary future to think about. She looked legit, like she hadn’t had a good night’s sleep in a year. Like she couldn’t eat, like she never smiled.
She didn’t stay long. She had one more drink, which we sat through in silence. Then she pushed away from the bar, stumbled a little as she slid off the stool.
“Want my advice?” she asked as she dropped more bills on the bar. “When it’s your time, do your best to die with your eyes open. Because it’s something, that blurry vision. It won’t last long before they shut your eyes for a viewing or tomb you in somewhere so black that it won’t matter. But it’s some kind of transition. The smallest kind of mercy. Considering everything, it’s the most you could hope for.”
She seemed unsteady on her feet as she headed for the door. Not wasted, but not sober. I expect drinking so much since her overdose had driven her tolerance up through the roof.
I want to say that I did the responsible thing and told her to wait, called her a cab, made extra sure she wasn’t driving. But that would have meant spending even a few minutes more with her, and I didn’t think I could handle that. So I let her leave.
I closed the place up fast and left there. Figured I’d go home, watch some dumb youtube videos until she seemed distant and laughable, and then go to bed and forget it ever happened.
Instead I lay there that night, still, in the darkness and the silence, and couldn’t stop thinking about being trapped that way for eternity.
She was probably a nutcase. She had overdosed on heroin, she’d implied, so whatever she thinks she experienced had to be skewed. There were too many other stories out there, light at the end of the tunnel, that kind of thing. I had - I have - no reason to believe that this one woman alone in humanity has accessed some kind of truth about life and death.
But I can’t stop thinking about it. I can’t let things get silent around me. I have to turn on a lamp to get any sleep at all. I’m scared of the dark now, scared of not being able to move. Terrified of death.
There was an article on google news the day after she came in, about a pedestrian who had been hit by a car crossing against the light two blocks from my bar. I remember hearing the sirens going by, but that wasn't particularly notable on our street, and I'd been in a hurry to leave.
I haven't looked into it. I don't know what I'm more scared of, the thought that it might be her, that me letting walk out meant it was my fault, that she had confessed her fears and then walked right into them again. Or that maybe, because it was quick, maybe she hadn't seen it coming.
Maybe her eyes weren't open in the end.
submitted by ljhall to nosleep [link] [comments]

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The MGA licence is one of the better ones you can find in the online casino world as Malta is the major European nation when it comes to online gambling. It is home not only to most of the world’s top online casinos, but also to many software providers and other businesses providing auxiliary services in the gambling industry.
A Malta Gaming Authority licence is not handed out with ease, as a company needs to fulfil many criteria before being granted one. The national gambling authorities of this Mediterranean island and EU member state check for example if all games which are made available are indeed fair and honest. They also check whether a company has enough cash reserves to pay out lucky winners of casino games and hold regular audits to ensure that there are no irregularities.
If an online casino has a MGA licence, it means that all the important criteria when it comes to safety, honesty and reliability are fulfilled and that it is a safe place to gamble. For us, the online casino licence is always a first thing we check before we even would consider playing somewhere. With this crucial criteria being fulfilled, we can thus move forward in our Whamoo review and look at all the other things this casino has to offer. And to be honest, the whole Whamoo package looks quite promising! Three of the main selling points of the Whamoo online casino are:
Whamoo clearly sounds like a promising casino when looking at the selling points, but do these points hold up when we test out the casino in real? Let’s continue our review of Whamoo with one of the most important aspects of every online casino: its game library. Which casino games can we find back in the Whamoo game collection? How honest and fair are these games? These are all legit questions which must be looked into before you can decide whether or not an online casino is suitable or not.
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Games from top software developers

When checking the list of Whamoo’s software providers you can only feel relieved as this brand new online casino only has games from the world’s top casino games developers. Especially for a newly opened online casino it is important to show to the public that you are talking serious – and you can only do that by adding the most popular games from the top software providers to your game library.
It’s not only about fun. Sure, these top software developers are known for making some of the most fantastic video slots, stellar table games. They have the most exhilarating and professional live casino tables to which you can connect in just a few clicks. But it’s more than just playing fun, graphics and game design.
By only having games from the top software companies, you are giving your players a clear message that you are only satisfied with the best quality games. Perhaps the most important aspect is game reliability, honesty and fairness. All games from the top software companies are fully tested and accredited by regulatory bodies. These gaming authorities check whether games indeed turn out completely random results and give gamblers a honest shot at winning. This is perhaps even more important than just a fantastically designed game, as in the end what matters most is reliability and honesty inside a casino.

RNG

The games which can be played at Whamoo Casino all have a piece of code called a Random Number Generator (RNG). With a random number generator, the outcome of every game is completely random and independent from previous results. It means that every card being dealt on the table, all dice which are thrown during a game, and every ball spinning around in the roulette wheel is never predetermined. Let’s put it this way: if you throw a single dice with the numbers 1 to 6 on it, you have indeed an exact 1 out of 6 chance that it will land on your predicted number.
A random number generator is absolutely crucial when it comes to delivering fair game results and giving gamblers a honest chance at winning. By having games from the top software providers, Whamoo makes sure that you can trust the fairness of every casino game you play. The good thing is that not only are the game results subject to occasional audits by regulatory authorities, but that these software providers also pro-actively test their own games to ensure they fulfil the highest industry standards. They hire independent testing agencies such as eCOGRA to check their games, both in virtual simulations and real-time results.
Let’s take a look at the software providers whose games have already been added to the Whamoo game library. As these are some of the best known software developers in the world, chances are that you have heard about some of these names before!
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NETENT GAMES

Also known by its full name of Net Entertainment, NetEnt is one of the largest casino game developers in the world. NetEnt is a Swedish company which was founded in 1996, which makes it one of the oldest companies in the relatively young world of online casino gaming. It is so big, that the company is even listed on the local NASDAQ stock exchange in Stockholm, Sweden!
NetEnt is best known for its vast video slot portfolio, of which many games are also playable at Whamoo. Having NetEnt games in your casino game library is almost a must for every online casino, as besides Whamoo some 300 or so more online casinos have NetEnt games available, which tells you something about the popularity of this company. Just like Whamoo itself, NetEnt has a full gambling licence in the EU member state of Malta, which means that all games are subject to regulatory oversight and can be trusted for their fairness. NetEnt also works closely together with independent testing labs to ensure that their games meet the highest standards.
Some popular NetEnt games which you can play at Whamoo are Jack and the Beanstalk, BerryBurst, Twin Spin, The Vikings, Wings of Riches, Aloha!, Fruit Shop, Jacks or Better, Gonzo’s Quest, Dazzle Me, Wild Bazaar and of course the eternal favourite of Starburst.

PRAGMATIC PLAY GAMES

Pragmatic Play is another major company in the online gaming world. The casino games of Pragmatic Play are always popular with the players, so it is no surprise that Whamoo has chosen to add quite a few Pragmatic Play games to its online collection. Pragmatic Play focuses mostly on online video slots, although they also make some exciting live casino games which are hosted in their own studios.
Being only founded in 2015, Pragmatic Play is a relative newcomer within the game developing industry. Yet in those few years time, the company already managed to reach to top heights with Pragmatic Play being considered to rank among the top game providers. Quality and safety are of immense importance for Pragmatic Play. Therefore, all games are documented and tested by independent auditors and testing labs such as QUINEL, BMM and Gaming Labs.
Popular Pragmatic Play games which can be played at Whamoo are John Hunter and the Aztec Treasure, Great Rhino Megaways, Leprechaun Song, Lucky Dragons, Mustang Gold, The Champions, Vegas Nights, Aztec Gems, Buffalo King, Starz Megaways, Triple Jokers, Magic Crystals, Sugar Rush, Beowulf and many more exciting video slots.
Of course, many baccarat, blackjack and roulette variants are available in Whamoo’s Live Casino which is powered by Pragmatic Play software. You are connected by high resolution video feed to professional dealers and croupiers in one of the Pragmatic Play casino studios where you can experience the thrills of a real life casino behind your computer or mobile phone. It’s almost like you are standing in Vegas!

STAKELOGIC GAMES

Stakelogic is another popular software developer which has added its games to the Whamoo game library. As one of the best-known developers in the software industry, it is always a good sign that Stakelogic games are available to play given that this company has made some exciting video slots.
Using HTML5, Stakelogic games are of course fully mobile compatible, which means you can play them on your smartphone as well. The company has also made some exciting new 3D slots which are not only gorgeous to look at but also wild fun to play. As an off-shoot company from gaming giants Novomatic, Stakelogic certainly is a reputable software developer which can be trusted when it comes to fairness and reliability.
Popular Stakelogic games are Epic Slam, Wild Stallion, Magic Wheel, Super Wild Arcade, Fruit Spinner, Lucky Gems Deluxe, Hot Fruits, Grand Slam Deluxe, Runner Runner, Turbo 4 Player Jackpot, Dragons and Magic, Big 5 Jungle Jackpot, Mariachi and The Big Cash Game.
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High limit gaming options

Whamoo is an online casino which is not only suitable for gamblers on a tight budget, but also for the true high rollers. You can place bets as low as a few cents, or as high as several thousands of euros or dollars at this online casino. Depending on your game of choice, whether its a jackpot video slot or classic table game, there are countless of options to bet big for maximum excitement and chances of winning top prizes. Further down in this Whamoo review, we will discuss some of the high limit games which are available.
Highrollers should also note that Whamoo comes with its own VIP programme in which you can quickly work yourself to the top category if you bet big. You can get instant access to your own dedicated casino manager and will get invites to high stakes tournaments. There are special weekly cashback bonuses as well for the true high roller gamblers at Whamoo. We will discuss the VIP program more in depth a bit further down this Whamoo review.
For now, let’s take a look at all the high roller games which are available at Whamoo Online Casino!

Endless rows of jackpot video slots

If you are a real lover of video slots you will be glad to hear that Whamoo has several hundreds of online video slots available. Although some of these slots are more suitable for beginning players or those on a tight budget, there are plenty of slots available where you can bet up to 100 euro/dollar per spin. This makes for some exhilarating and thrilling slot game action which will please any high stakes gambler out there!
Of course, Whamoo also has its share of jackpot slots where you have a shot at winning the progressive jackpot which can run well above a million euro or dollar! These premium slots, such as those using the famous Megaways system, offer countless of opportunities to place maximum bets at your video slot of choice.
Check the Whamoo game library whether or not your favourite slot is available as well, or try one of the many exciting new game additions! It is easy to browse through the Whamoo website. You can sort slots by software provider, or use the search function to check for your beloved title.

Join for some high stakes blackjack action

Blackjack has always been one of the most popular games among high rollers and the reasons why are quite clear. You can often bet high amounts of money on a single play and you can as a player slightly influence the outcome of a game as you need to decide whether you want to stand or hit another card.
At Whamoo, there is plenty of high stakes blackjack action. There are both normal blackjack games such as American Blackjack and multihand Blackjack, as well as blackjack tables in the live casino. In the live casino, which is powered by Pragmatic Play software, you can play several blackjack variants. Bets of up to several hundreds of euros or dollars, or even higher for the real VIPs, are possible.
Beat the hand of the dealer and hit that score of 21. Maybe it will be your lucky day playing blackjack at Whamoo Online Casino!

Grab a seat at the roulette table

There is plenty of roulette action at Whamoo as well. You can choose between virtual roulette versions, or opt for a seat at a roulette table in the live casino, where you are connected to a real-time croupier by video feed. Especially in the live casino high bets of up to a thousand dollar or more are possible, making roulette a big favourite among the real high stake gamblers.
Of course, Whamoo Casino has all of the the standard roulette versions of American Roulette, French Roulette and European Roulette. Most of these games are developed by software giants NetEnt.
In the live casino, there is also Roulette Macao Live, where you will be connected to a gaming environment which makes you feel like you are playing in the famous casinos of this Chinese gambling mecca. Live Speed Roulette, Live Roulette Auto and Roulette Azure are popular Pragmatic Play live casino versions of roulette which are available to Whamoo players.
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Whamoo's unique bonus package

One area in which Whamoo stands out as online casino is its great bonus package. Of course, there is a great welcome bonus for newly registered users. But the fun doesn’t stop there! At Whamoo casino, it is bonus day almost every single day of the week. On Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays the casino has recurring bonus offers if you reload you bankroll on one of those days. This makes Whamoo not only an attractive casino at the moment you sign up, but also at all those moments when you come back to play again.
300 free spins or a €200 deposit bonus

The Whamoo welcome bonus

We start of discussing the Whamoo welcome bonus which is called the “Welcombo” bonus by the casino. On a picture the Welcombo might not look too appealing as its packed in a carton takeaway box you might get at a certain fast food restaurant, but trust us on this: its contents are truly fantastic.
The Welcombo box contains a combination of goodies you get with your very first deposit at Whamoo. And what is best of all? You can decide what combo you want to receive! If you sign up at Whamoo for a free online casino account, you can determine your own bonus by adjusting the slide until you have found a combination which matches your idea of a perfect bonus.
This is a great option as it allows people to choose the bonus which best suits them. You can choose between free spins and a deposit bonus – or a combination of both. If you are an avid video slot gamer and do not care much about table games, you may want to slide all the way to the maximum free spins bonus. In that case, you will receive 300 free spins, but your deposit bonus will be 0%. The free spins in the Welcombo package are valid on the popular Amatic Industries slot Book of Fortune.
On the other hand, if you only care about table games and are not really interested in free spins and playing video slots, you want to adjust the slide to the maximum deposit bonus. This is a 100% deposit bonus of up to 200 euro. This means that if you deposit 200 euro of your own money to your newly created online casino account, Whamoo will top this up by another 200 euro from the house! If you select the full 100% deposit bonus, you will however not receive any free spins at all.
Of course, you can also opt for a mix between free spins and a deposit bonus. If you leave the slider in the middle, you will get 150 free spins and a 50% deposit bonus, for example. You can tweak this in any direction you want, for example to a 70% deposit bonus and 90 free spins. The higher your deposit bonus, the less free spins you receive. Want more free spins? Then your deposit bonus will decrease.

Welcombo bonus terms and conditions

Only one bonus is allowed per household and/or per player account. Do note that Whamoo’s bonuses remain valid until seven days after the required deposit has been made. Once this period ends, the bonus is automatically flagged as expired by the system and can no longer be released. The expired bonus funds are then automatically removed from the player’s account.
Of course, there is a wagering requirement which must be met in order to withdraw your bonus money and any winnings which may derive from it. Real money balance is used prior to bonus balance. The bonus balance will only be used when there is no real money available in your account. Only real money funds and released bonus funds can contribute towards the wagering requirement of the bonus. The wagering requirement for the Welcombo deposit bonus and free spins is thirty times (30x) the deposit + bonus.
Do note that players that deposit money using Paysafecard, Skrill or Neteller are not eligible for the Welcombo. To assure fair gaming and prevent fraud, Whamoo has placed a maximum cap on bonus money wagers, which are limited to a maximum per round/bet of €5 or its equivalent in other currencies. You should also be aware that certain games cannot be played using bonus money. There is a full overview of these games on the Whamoo bonus page.
Bets placed in certain games might not contribute fully to the wagering requirements.

Recurring bonuses at Whamoo

The bonus fun does not stop at the welcome bonus when you play at Whamoo! You can count on a constant stream of promotional campaigns and bonus offers. The casino has recurring promo offers every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. If you deposit some extra money to your online casino bankroll on one of those days, you are eligible for a bonus. It therefore pays off to wait for these days before you decide to reload your online funds.
On Monday it is Pick ‘n’ Play day to start off the week with some good vibes. On this day, the casino basically tops up your deposited money You can:
It is even possible to combine these bonuses if you want to deposit a larger sum! Alternatively, you can use the bonus codes of WHPICK5, WHPICK15 and WHPICK35 by putting these into the promo code field on the cashier page every Monday.

Whoa Wednesday

Wednesday is for many a difficult day in the week, it being right in the middle of another long week of work. To spice up things, Whamoo has come with an unusual bonus which it calls “Whoa Wednesday”.
Every Wednesday you get to uncover your secret gift – for free, no strings attached. The casino will add this gift to your next deposit. This can be a bonus, a set of free spins, or even both. You’ll get all the details once you’ve pulled off the cover and logged into your account. You will receive the bonus details and promotional code, which you can use in the promo field at the payment page to receive your hard-earned Wednesday bonus.

Freeday bonus

Friday is the favourite day of the week for many people – and the reason why is quite obvious. It marks the end of another working week and the start of some well-deserved weekend R&R! For many people this involves paying a visit to a land-based or online casino to get their kicks at their favourite game, whether it is a card game, roulette or video slot.
Whamoo knows that many people cannot wait for the days off work to start and therefore has come up with a special Friday bonus to welcome in the weekend! This bonus day is called ‘Freeday’ by Whamoo. The casino basically hands you a bunch of free spins if you are a regular customer. For every weekday from the previous week (Friday through Thursday) that you’ve deposited 30 euro or more, you get 10 free spins. For every weekend day you even get 20 Free Spins! That means up to 90 Free Spins are yours to play with. That’s a great start to a weekend full of partying and fun!

Wagering requirements

Do note that wagering requirements do apply to all daily promo offers. These are more or less the same as we outlined above in the description of the welcome package, but do take a look at the bonus terms and conditions page on the Whamoo website to know precisely what you can expect! As always, it is important to read the small print in order not to face any surprises later on.
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A fully mobile compatible casino

As a brand new online casino, Whamoo knows that already a majority of gamblers nowadays play on their mobile phones rather than on computers. Because of this, the Whamoo casino is fully compatible with mobile devices and tablets. If you load the Whamoo website on your smartphone, it looks just as good as on your laptop of computer. It’s equally accessible and orderly too! The mobile website is a breeze to browse through and you can easily access all the important pages such as the game library and payment page.
The same counts for the actual games themselves. Whamoo only works with software providers which are known to offer full mobile gaming support. These games are made in code such as HTML5, which means that the games can simply be played in your (mobile) internet browser. There is no download or special app required to play these games. Whether you are playing on your computer, tablet or smartphone, you simply surf to Whamoo.com and select your favourite game from the library. This game will then open in your internet browser – and you can play instantly. It does not matter whether your phone runs on Android or is an iPhone, nor does it matter whether you have Mozilla Firefox, Google Chrome, Internet Explorer, Opera, Safari or any other internet browser. Whamoo will function just fine!
This is absolutely great as you can now play at Whamoo wherever you are, whenever you want. Want to put down some wagers on the roulette table while you are sitting in public transport on your way to work? That’s easily doable! Just take out your smartphone on the train or bus, and surf to Whamoo.com to play at your favourite roulette table. Are you sitting on your couch at home and want to play a few hands of blackjack before going to sleep? Just take out your laptop, tablet or phone and within seconds you can have some of the most exhilarating blackjack fun on your screen.

The Whamoo Live Casino

Whamoo’s live casino is powered by Pragmatic Play and NetEnt software – which are two of the biggest, most reputable software providers in the world. This is great news for the players, as you can access high quality tables in just a few clicks.
In the live casino, you are connected with a live video feed to a real-time casino table in one of the casino studios of these software providers. You can play games like baccarat, blackjack and roulette like you are standing in a real land-based casino in Vegas or Monaco! Thanks to the high definition video stream, you have a great overview of all the action which unfolds on and around the table.
All table games are led by experienced, professional croupiers and dealers who are not only well-trained, but entertaining as well. By all means, feel free to open your microphone or the chat window to have a talk with them, or even with other players from around the world. This is what makes the live casino such a great invention. Even though you might be sitting at home in front of your laptop or computer, it does almost feel like you are standing in a casino for real!
Especially for high rollers the live casino is a worthwhile addition as table limits are often much higher than in regular games. Of course, if you are on a tight budget there will definitely be live casino tables where low minimum bets are allowed too – no worries there. But it is the experienced, high stakes gambler who probably feels most at home in the live casino.
There are multiple baccarat, blackjack and roulette variants which you can play. For roulette, there is American Roulette, European Roulette, French Roulette, Speed Roulette, Live Roulette Auto and Roulette Macao Live. If you prefer the casino classic of blackjack, you will find plenty of different tables all with slightly different betting limits. Baccarat is perhaps the game with the highest betting limit. Besides the regular version, there are also Speed Baccarat tables. A fourth casino game which can be played live at the Whamoo Live Casino is Sic Bo. Just browse through the list of live casino games, or use the search function to find your favourite table!
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Whamoo Casino 50 free spins bonus no deposit required

Whamoo Casino 50 free spins bonus no deposit required
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Whamoo Casino Gratis Spins and Promotions
Claim 50 No Deposit Free Spins to Whamoo Casino! Open your gaming account here via a special landing page and play to win. In addition, they have to offer 300 gratis spins and 100% up to 200 EUR bonus money. And, there's also a second and third deposit bonus with bonus chips and free spins.
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Whamoo Casino Review

The first thing you might want to learn about Whamoo Casino is that the site has been opened in December 2020. So, this is one of the latest online casino sites out there. However, there is so much more you should know about them. In our review and analysis, we will tell you all the secret details. Keep reading to find out about their owners, licenses, bonuses, promotion, gaming portfolio, payment methods, and more!

Licenses and Operators – Who Owns Whamoo Casino?

The site is registered and run under MGA, the Malta Gaming Authority. It is one of the most prestigious online gambling licenses. The best sites are secured with MGA’s online gaming permission. However, the MGA license is not the only guarantee that proves Whamoo Casino’s trustworthiness. DialMedia Ltd owns and operates Whamoo Casino. Long story short, they are responsible for all the gaming services at the site. And their name makes sure you will enjoy your winnings here. They also run Omni Slots Casino and Fruits4Real Casino. If you know online gambling sites, you know those sites, come on!

Privacy, Safety & Security – Is it a Safe and Legit Online Casino Site?

As we mentioned above, Whamoo Casino is registered under the laws of the Malta Gambling Authority. In addition, the site owners also put a high pressure on protecting their customers’ privacy. The site uses a 128-bit, high-rated encryption technology. It makes sure that all your data will be safely protected. You have no reason to worry about third parties taking advantage of your activities at this site. The MGA license makes sure that you will get the money that you win while playing here. The site follows all GDPR regulations. Based on all these, I believe it is only fair to name them a safe and trustworthy online casino site.
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About Whamoo Casino Bonuses – Claim up to €600 Extra Money

Not that you know about the owners, licenses, and privacy measurements of the site, maybe it’s time to register. Opening a new account at the site is worth it now. Sign up through GamingZion. We will help you claim €600 upon your first three deposits. In the Welcome Package, you can claim a 75% third deposit bonus up to €200 + 40 free spins, a 50% second deposit bonus up to €200 + 30 free spins, and a 100% first deposit bonus up to €200. So, you will get extra money upon your first three deposits. Not bad, is it? And other daily offers are also there for you…

About Whamoo Casino Promotions – Win New Prizes Every Day

If you have registered your new account at Whamoo Casino and took your welcome package of €600, that’s good. However, your treats aren’t over just yet. Navigate yourself to the Promotions section in the top menu bar. You will not be disappointed, we guarantee that! You can immediately see the promotions calendar for the current and the upcoming months. And you will see that there is something basically every day… Claim weekly free spins and daily match bonuses, or other prizes. You can see whichever you like the most. You will also find the best offers in our online gambling promotions directory.
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Available Games – Play your Favourite Online Casino Slots

Now you know about the bonuses and the promotions. However, the impressive and outstanding features of the site are still not over. We must talk about the gaming portfolio as well! Is there any type of online gambling game that you’re specifically looking for? Start searching for it here, chances are, you will easily find it. Slots, jackpots, table games, video poker, bingo, keno… They are all there, and they are all waiting just for you to finally start playing. Will you?

Whamoo Live Casino – Enjoy The Real-Life Gambling Experience

We’ve already talked about the gaming portfolio, but we haven’t talked about the live casino section yet. It’s time. We must mention it because it has quite an impressive selection when it comes to roulette, baccarat, and blackjack games. You can find many types of those games, with many different dealers. You can pick whichever you like the most – and you can easily try all those games. Unfortunately, there are still ways to improve the live casino selection, nevertheless. For example, live poker slots are definitely missing for now. Probably they are coming soon!
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Whamoo Mobile Casino – Play Mobile Slots on iOS & Android

There is no Whamoo Casino mobile app just yet. Which can be interpreted as bad news as well as good news. It could be bad because apps make it easier to play. However, it’s rather good. You don’t need to spend time trying to find the Whamoo mobile application. You don’t need to visit shady sites, download an unknown apk file, and hope for the best. You just need to open your browser on your phone and access the site. It’s totally responsive, so it doesn’t matter which divice you use, you will definitely be able to access the page, log in to your account, and play your favourite slots. Android, iOS, and other operating systems’ users can all play here!

About Whamoo Casino Payment Methods – How to Deposit & Withdraw Money

We also need to talk about the available payment methods at Whamoo Casino as well. There are certain limitations: if you wish to deposit money, you must make a deposit of at least €10. You can deposit up to €1,000 and no more! There are many available banking methods. These vary whether you’d like to deposit or withdraw your money. Please scroll lower to our Banking section. That’s where we list all the available depositing and withdrawal methods at Whamoo Casino.
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Rules and Restrictions – Who can Register and Play?

This is probably the only negative part of Whamoo Casino. While the site has the prestigious MGA license, unfortunately, as of today, they have not captured a license from the UK Gambling Committee. So, they cannot operate their services in the United Kingdom. In addition, Whamoo Casino is also not accessible from the USA. There are a few other restricted countries. You can see the full list if you scroll a bit lower to our Restricted Countries section. If your country of residence is not listed, then you should probably sign up for a new account at Whamoo Casino. You won’t regret it!

Overall Verdict

2020 hasn’t really been an easy year for any of us. We have suffered plenty, many of us have lost several loved ones, the Earth has been attacked by numerous natural catastrophes in the past few months. However, we cannot stop believing that better things are coming. All these might start with the launching and finding of our new favourite online gaming site – Whamoo Casino. Their impressive gaming selection will definitely help us ease the pain we got from last year’s traumatic experiences. Let’s hope for the best. Let’s be optimistic. Let’s win!
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A realistic look at Fred and George's bet with Ludo Bagman and what they might win.

Fred and George eagerly offer up a truly absurd bet with almost no provocation when Ludo Bagman offers one. They bet 37 Galleons, 15 sickles and 3 knuts, plus a fake wand Ludo values at 5 galleons (a real wand is 7 galleons so its a really impressive fake, it seems. )
Now most people would assume it's a straightforward bet and if the twins are correct, Ludo owes them 85 galleons, 13 sickles and 6 knuts. (Or 79 Galleons if he returns the wand when he pays up.)
But Ludo says something very important in the area of sports betting. "I'll give you excellent odds on that!"
Which means the twins are not doing a 1 for 1 bet, but are getting a bet which pays in multiples. Once odds enter the discussion, there is no way its a 1 for 1. No one has ever considered a 1 for 1 bet "excellent odds."
The odds are not stated, but Fred and George's wager is absurd. They are betting that the most famous athlete in the most famous sport in their world will either make a tremendous, legendary blunder on par with Chris Webber calling the fateful timeout he didn't have to lose the NCAA championship, or Andres Escobar making the own-goal in the 1994 FIFA world cup that ultimately led to his murder a month later.
Or worse, that the most famous athlete will lose the game on purpose. This is not entirely uncommon in sports, and almost always for the same reason: betting. People in organized crime pay an athlete to lose, then bet as much as they can on the lost, guaranteeing their returns. But it's majorly illegal and if caught it means you're banned from the sport for life. Big stakes for an 18 year old wunderkind with his entire pro career ahead of him.
In other words, their prediction is hugely unlikely. No one else at the World Cup is looking for that bet and no other betting service would even think to offer odds on it. (Remember that matches lasting multiple days are common which means most seekers aren't getting bored and grabbing the snitch after 3 hours just to go home if they're losing.) And hugely unlikely bets get excellent odds. Betting on a winner and loser is straightforward, but betting on isolated elements of a game like that is much more complex and carries much higher odds. Think roulette, they're not betting on black or white. They're betting on specific numbers, but still way beyond that. Glance through Super Bowl prop bets and you'll see picking the guy who scores the winning touchdown or field goal will have odds between 1 to 100 and 1 to 1,000 depending on the players role in the offense.
So how much would the twins have won if Bagman was an honest man? The twins don't say a word about odds, which was incredibly foolish of them, so we'll run the gamut. (I'm including the knuts and sickles in the calculations but after adding them to the galleon tally I'm just reporting the galleons.)
- If they bet at 3 to 1 they would make 128.66 Galleons, not counting getting their original 37 back.
- If it's 5 to 1 they win 214.44
- 10 to 1 pays 428.88
- 20 to 1 pays 857.77. This, frankly would be the absolute minimum of acceptable odds if the twins knew their way around a sports book. Still very low.
- 25 to 1 pays 1,072.21
- 50 to 1 pays 2,144.42
- 100 to 1 pays 4,288.84
- 200 to 1 pays 8,577.69
- 500 to 1 pays 21,444.22 This is probably outside the realm of possibility without Ludo having a legit backer or running a legitimate book operation, he simply wouldn't accept a bet that would pay out like this. However, in a legitimate casino this would be the type of odds necessary to make someone bet on something this unlikely.
All that to say the 1,000 Galleons Harry gave them might be far less than what their seed money would have looked like if Ludo was honest, loaded, and fair.
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the cosmopolitan six thousand five hundred dollar bank the bonus live play tonight last night you guys wanted some mighty cash i found you a mighty cash double up look at those numbers that we're working with same format last night we do 500 tickets however some of my tickets are a thousand bucks they're just easier that way so i'll have to do some uh thinking and uh math but i get kerry here to help me out and i got all my lovely and fans so ticket starts at a thousand dollars so we're not gonna go below 500 guys so this one should be pretty easy max volume bank the bonus live play 13.50 a spin [Music] mighty cash double up let's see this haywire five or more for the bonus [Music] mr classic tv says punky power thank you mr classic tv oh yeah mr classic tv i think you won one of those blenders or um mixers but i need to get your address so send me an email or message me on facebook so i know jimmy d won the other mixer but i'm pretty sure you are the other winner so i want to get that sent out to you yes haywire we got something big oh 45 bucks good ones big one oh i couldn't drop like the maxi because it doubles up [Music] wait there we go [Music] and carrie we trust so we're gonna have him hit the button all right gary [Music] wow that's huge let's keep getting these red ones yes this is not bad red [Music] that wasn't a good spin but if your first two are pretty solid so i forgive you [Music] yolanda rory love you bry mighty cash is the best i love you too yolanda hopefully it will come to new york here soon yeah this is a decent oh yolanda which one do i pick yolanda's picking guys left right middle if yolanda's in here we'll give her a first chance to pick one two or three your left middle right yolanda i'm gonna wait for her i am i'm in plenty of time [Music] i'm a no hurry this is a nice little bonus yolanda gets to pick [Music] leland assistant too all right here it is shoot that's fine all right let's do it anything filled up down there okay extra 13.50 [Music] yes too bad we couldn't fill that up this is not a bad little hit i'll do some ticket math later on because uh i had a thousand dollar ticket but a good start yesterday we started off great and then it went south and if smaller bets work we'll do smaller bets but i am getting some revenge on that 25 cash code it's a jackpot to start the night what do you know [Music] yolanda has no reason to be sorry how's the picture quality everybody we have one person keep saying bad picture but everybody else says [Music] [Music] nothing [Music] all right let me see if i can uh [Music] all right [Music] all right is that good now how does that look perfect all right couple backup spins come on please please please [Music] backup spins galore i saw it go by too all right two thousand dollars will be the ending point [Music] all right first game get a win nice start all right so this ticket guys oh cougar girls 9.99 super justice happy new year all right i reset it i don't know what else to do so i did reset the wi-fi i mean the picture i am at mercy of the casino and romeo evan welcome to the bod rubber ducky club all right guys since um the same ticket so five hundred dollars again i've got these thousand dollar tickets i have to use them twice so the floor is going to be 1500 all right all right 17 16 a spin [Music] that's huge 300 that's good [Music] [Applause] yep i i work with what i have so [Music] maybe it'll get better but i did reset it twice after that i can't do much i apologize but i'm working with what they have but thank you to 800 people watching one more [Music] open this pot 24. [Music] 40 bucks [Music] yes scott i just re-logged into wi-fi for the third time i did reset it and i reset it again so [Applause] [Music] all right before the bonus i'll see if i can fix the wi-fi whoops 73. if you're winning with that well i find it just keep it that way give me one second guys this is my best four games [Music] which one do you guys look all right which one should i pick i've never done this thank you raja what do you guys want [Music] miss mary brian thank you for the live play i really activity oh thank you miss mary [Music] coins [Music] all right coins all coins come on yes oh we're going to do something on the left [Music] chris had patches behind me for me hey one more time i logged out i forgot the network and i logged back in [Music] guys not much i can do guys so the i'm doing the best i can but tell me it's blurry and tell me it's unwatchable and you're gonna unsubscribe above and beyond because i don't control the wi-fi you're gonna unsubscribe from my channel uh i'm not trying to be negative here but don't say crap like that that's just not cool all right guys i'm doing the best i can to give you guys some bonus live play and kyle sell data does not work at all in vegas anyways we got a bonus 776 dollars all right there's some backup spans the floor we'll get 2800 2750 2800 we'll see how it goes and we'll do the top up if we hit it [Music] all right so 27.50 is gonna be the floor so the first thousand in we're gonna have at least 27.50 so that's a great start tonight the pot is a little over 6500 but that's what the tickets i had available was they're gonna make that work but thank you all for tuning in thank you for you know the watching the earlier live play and we got a super chat herbert d brian you're doing fine ignore the complaint all right one more spin and we're gonna cash out so far it's a good little start [Music] all right let's move what do you guys want to see next is my lucky players card [Music] so [Music] those are not multi-dino [Music] yep how you doing yeah i hope so i reset it again it's still really bad i i re-logged in crushing it you hit reconnect i hit reconnect yeah it's still brilliant now all right we're back live all right thank you all right guys garager just help me out it's great usually for a little bit and then it kind of sputters out all right guys how about some konami konami time [Music] [Music] it can go to a hotel you go to hotel next all right and play konami games radiant witch 15 to spin so the floor on this game is gonna be 500. because it's a thousand dollar ticket let's do it guys but thank you all for tuning in hey brian i got a super chat for you one dollar lucky super chat from jose all right usually the usually for a super chat has to be at least 1.99 or higher to say anything doesn't want it we'll try one this is going in the community pot there we go so now you're in action you have a point one tenth of a percentage all right taxi 10 000. yeah we need to go to the other one all right we're gonna try the hotel one all right we're gonna try one more wi-fi guys i apologize all right all right last try guys after this we're just gonna wing it but waffs 73 in bod we trust thank you wasps genomes just keep crushing it all right guys if i missed a super chat then i did do my best doing my best all right here we go it's an iphone 12 pro mac so it should the phone's not the issue here oh i think it was one away from that symbol nice you love silver lucky 25 super super chat flip phone it's a motorola gopro i have no idea come on three or more bonus symbols may trigger the money galaxy feature oh you're not like that okay [Music] we switched the wi-fi network so hopefully guys hopefully this helps it's holding up so we'll take it at this point jose ah i tried [Music] guys it has nothing to do with the camera on the phone it's the wifi [Music] chris pat you're doing great brian of data oh that's my new name brian of data 9150 so i heard you made a killing in the stock market today had a good day you guys haven't checked out raja makes money the mods have been actually posting the link so thank you mod for doing that come on kanami give me some heck yeah [Music] gosh you guys i might have to cancel live play early tonight if i have to keep modding for myself [Music] come on it's due [Music] uh now i get that radiant witch symbol when i don't need it yep once again [Music] well i would go play it and that's that's it that's the 500 mark so [Music] all right let's keep moving on guys [Music] now um somebody specifically told me i should go play high stakes [Music] you know what maybe he'll do some video poker since carrie's here tonight how would you guys want to see some ultimate at the video poker i think that could be fun 1250 spin max that volume out yay or nay on video poker oops stephen hall he requested this game tonight so he got it apple alert for guys tonight 5 30 ah so close 5 30 pacific time you know what i did really good on last night was uh one more that uh i hit those two nice jackpots on uh also environment really i haven't if we went at one more and open up the taco that is like another four i never have like an ultimate fire like played it again last night but the last couple ever since i started playing that another one ultra hot megalink i didn't go to those now they've done these whole shows okay i never liked it because i never got the bonus but now we've got all these great bonuses they're gonna take 5 30 guys the big jackpot will be live on the main facebook page with youtube live play to follow at six o'clock pacific time [Music] yes we got a bonus see what happens when i push the button all right big one here we go carrie go ahead and hit the button carrie terry first lucky raja high rollers i had to mix it up it didn't work for me yesterday all right raja your turn your turn nah all right jose hit the button [Music] okay there we go that's 125 for jose tracy says i feel bbb coming for b.o.d well we believe in b.o.d everybody hit the thumbs up jose you're on the roll ready another 125. you're fired i'm fired i'll come in and save the day all right come on all right you're in all right here we go there you go that's all you guys are worth 25. oh this is 50 cents it's 12 minutes all right carrie you're back in it come on 62.50 jose tagging you back in you're hired again come on that's this is a brd spin oh okay there it is all right same as the raja come on nature just drop it oh really i carry you're back in [Music] all right jose we'll worry about the price of the grand if we come to that all right it comes down to body [Applause] that's something 362. [Music] it is but yours is a lot tighter mine's maybe the spring's gone or something [Applause] [Music] all right backup spins we'll play it down to what 500. how does that sound that sounds great thank you one more sorry he's live right now [Music] ma'am it's 45 dollars i'm sorry that's my gunnery jose my agent told me that all right big congratulations to the quick father he's not going to be with us tonight and right when we got done playing about one o'clock last night went to the room get a good night's sleep at three o'clock he sent me a message he had to get an uber for a five-hour drive back to california he missed his baby being born that's why we picked this date early in the month because baby was due on the 18th so we're like okay two weeks plenty of time you know get home and yeah out of nowhere last night all right guys what do you think we should play next all right autumn moon let's do it ah guys i do not really charge 45 dollars a photo you guys can believe whatever you want this one's due i'm into this game for at least a thousand bucks i get this one two oh the better match yeah no no but this one yesterday all right here we go twenty dollars to spend fifty four hundred dollar major hundred and three thousand dollar grand this is slower than like that first [Music] so the floor is 500 on this game unless we decide to play a second round on it so thousand dollar ticket in the floor come on what whoa no oh i thought you had it oh wow how did you screw that up very easily oh i thought i had it thousands left what happened to that 20 orb what happened to that 20 dollar orb tracy if jose twerks upside down like naomi there will be mega booms wow you've been requesting the twerk upside down [Music] diane mccall says whatever rajo says about you after i fell for the malaria hoax [Laughter] so diane mccall says she doesn't believe anything you say about me after she fell for the malaria hoax when you told everybody i had malaria b.o.d uh brandon true b.o.d ah what what grand did you hit the other day when the raja was live it's probably the same as me having malaria whatever that's worth [Music] it's no minor finally [Music] the good news is i don't have malaria currently but the question is are you going to fall asleep 2 000. i knew this game was due ah yeah come on keeping it alive [Music] now i pumped well over a thousand bucks in this game last night [Music] plus in the group paul we didn't do too well either [Music] [Applause] thousand right [Music] oh here it comes 103 000 live let me at least see it i did not see it i got my glasses on and i don't see it again the drama it's left-handed does it work nope i need to mix it up is that what you do in the bedroom people got jokes today come on [Music] hopefully we keep playing well i can pay off my markers it'll be nice [Music] that's something is that tick-tock tick-tock well i only have one phone unlike some people wow you guys both have one phone wait we got so many girls and tracy d if you don't mind sending me a photos later on of all the jackpots thank you all right so the floor is gonna be three thousand bucks one more moon there's still good line hit john johnson boom boom boom in bod's room that's right [Music] yeah this machine was definitely due after i mean carrie watched me struggle on this game last night i mean struggle one more i knew this game had to do a comeback hi there how you doing today good how are you i'm doing well you can't do recording what did this gentleman tell you i'm spitting fake news again i'm gonna have to call security on you that wouldn't be the first time yeah they called him last time when he had those prostitutes you grabbed his hands on his feet caesar's palace was not a good day remember caesar's palace and that lady i was tracy says i'm waiting jose you got this bee all right cash it out so this yeah so yeah this was a new this was a fresh ticket jimmy beauty on ajita keep it up i got your hoodie in my room during his live play i'll get it for you all right cash cove 25 a spin so the floor is just under 2 500. purple and gold saw it's nice wind keep it up i'm going to purple gold and i got jimmy d there you go all right all right so the floor is like 2 400 and change what doesn't want my ticket i did this yesterday too gaming machine unable to redeem at this time that was weird and it took it cash go 25 to spend cash cove just under 2 400 sorry just under 2 500. come on make up make up for you so 24 in change [Music] 100 dollars get it oh but thank you to all the mods help out thank you to kerry all aboard or luxury line tiffany j beauty great live stream can you play some cats all right we'll do cats after this [Music] no thank you nope i'm doing well not drinking anything so i'm gonna hold off as long as we keep winning i will not have a sip of water the entire livestream i am very superstitious [Music] what did he get nice jose is on ajita as tracy d would say this ticket will be put in the bank after this machine is over that's a great observation [Music] [Music] doesn't want me to quit this game i guess no okay there you go all right couple more spins not gonna go below 2400 come on come on all right final spin on this game cash an hour all right all right so that i think it's done all right we're gonna put another thousand dollar ticket in so once again the floor is gonna be um 500 bucks i didn't have to didn't have time to break down the tickets cats here it is somebody wanted cats to send a super chat and i haven't done cats in a while so [Music] 15 to spin [Music] yes that's it i thought it looked it looked a lot better in my mind sometimes the lower bets work better that's a pay line on 15. oh fine don't have to convince me it looks like if i'm a game manufacturer i'm making 15 lines that's not one of mine [Music] yeah of all the games being different heights different angles it's not always the easiest sometimes to uh that's it fifteen all right 30 that's fine 30 bucks on cats ah 200 nice [Music] come on bank the bonus that's good huh 400. nice [Music] that's right johnny milwaukee loves all the games that have cats in it kitty glitter miss kitty [Music] bonus [Music] [Music] what do you think should i play 45 a spin on catch or keep it here at 30. 500 is the floor we're going for that bonus oh yeah 250. i'll tell you what we'll do actually choose the max you can only play 30 bucks so by default oh bonus nope no nope gina anyway can you play black widow uh maybe you'll do some black widow i'll tell you what since we're doing well in the game we'll i don't want to lose any money on this game so we'll set the floor in a thousand bucks so we guarantee we don't lose any money playing cats [Music] i hate to do well in the machine and go broke trying to hit the bonus so [Music] come on okay 200 just for that [Music] and if we break the two 2000 mark maybe he'll set a floor above that come on full screen say meow i likey [Music] so if the raja ever tells you something about me 95 of the time it's not true he said you were an awesome individual b.o.d yep see told you now he knows better than joke about my dogs so oh yeah that's like the one thing he knows so if he says something about my dogs that may be true but besides that i never had malaria [Music] what's not a pay line but this jagged thing is that's bs hey ben hello [Music] don't get called on me kitty cats [Music] all right um is black widow on here all right this game's getting cold i'm going to use this extra 186 dollars for black widow so the forum black widow's still going to be 500. i so whatever that's worth executive vod decision [Music] forty dollars to spend on black widow [Music] the floor is at 500 on the game he's taking some of that extra money [Music] all right a black widow floor is five hundred dollars oh there's yep i that's a lot of people say i look like the purple guy in black widow they're the pink guy does that look like b.o.d what do you guys think i think it is they modeled it after me maybe that's right the raja this is his favorite game because he gets to see me all the time [Music] wow cheryl clark blackwidow be nice to b.o.d thank you we don't think we had a single playback of anything on black widow yet [Music] not a single does black widow hate b.o.d looks like ben affleck oh there we go on the last spin it pays 160 says don't quit on me [Music] ah mark wahlberg all right final spin and we're putting this ticket in the bank for cats and black widow so cats and black widow is done now i did play some um dancing drums earlier today and i got killed 2 000 down on dancing drums so based on that it's dancing drums revenge [Music] time [Music] yeah i saw my afternoon live play we did play some dancing drums so what do i got left 500 500 500 000 so 6500 in tickets i have 2500 left let's just make it easy to put a 500 ticket here so once again guys i had to get some thousand dollar tickets i couldn't get the 500 so that's why we used some tickets twice 1760 a bet and we're going for three if we get it we're going for three the last three games we haven't done anything so we're due for another bonus here jimbo come on drums let's see a bonus i agree timbo so the mini's at 178 miners 626 that seems awfully high you son of a yeah majors at 9 000 yeah we're going for three because that's what i said all right here we go all right big money there we go that's it [Music] yes oh one more dragon that helped 120 yeah 360. [Music] all right 660 dollar bonus [Music] all right we're gonna play some more uh like 750 floor on this game we need some backup spins let's get another bonus [Music] you know screw it we'll do the mystery if we get it again that sounds fine with me mystery if we get another bonus i just hit five drums [Music] all right final spin unless we hit something um [Music] all right whoops says uh [Music] top dollar let's do it [Music] a lot of people like the double top dollar [Music] yeah 210 dollars to spend sorry 10 dollars a credit 20 [Music] we've been doing better on the lower d knobs right now so [Music] she says always double she's an expert so yeah 10's on there i'm putting a thousand dollar ticket in so the floor will be 500. [Music] so it's 20 dollars yes we did some higher spins earlier going backwards still good slide play [Music] carla howard says good luck tonight hashtag bonus time hope you're staying warm up there [Music] carla [Music] oh [Music] [Music] is my card working all right let's see this top dollar logo [Music] so close there we go [Music] almost 2 000 people watching thank you guys for tuning in tonight make the bonus live play from the cosmopolitan las vegas hit that subscribe button keep notifications on because sometimes i do surprise live play like this morning last spin [Music] and i did some like hundred dollar huffing puff this morning all right let's move on to some pinball [Music] two credit pinball we'll do 20 to spin on this too yes we'll do the video poker [Music] let's set pinball yeah uh these old school pinballs you can't see them anymore you don't find them much all the casinos that have them do not get rid of them looks like the new pinball they have it's a little different format 20 to spin so with a three credit pinball you get five shots with two credit pinball you get four [Music] that was 250 okay give this some more ammo to hit this pinball come on come on [Music] ah so close we have 1500 left after this the big jackpot will be live at 5 30 pacific time so [Music] and maybe i'll do some surprise late night live play tonight you never know that's why you have to subscribe and click those notifications on if i do like it yeah yeah it's something i was waiting for like yeah eight grand i'm like my like time just kind of stopped okay for me i'm like is it gonna happen [Music] it is what time what time is it carrie right now i think about five o'clock or so so it's 4 45 yes there we go uh i think i'm gonna keep the ten dollar genome it's working i hate to blow through everything on the twenty five dollar d numb we ain't broke i rather win a little bit of money on a smaller bet than lose more money on a larger bet [Music] yeah maybe some we'll see late no promises i did a surprise live play this afternoon [Music] and it's not a surprise if i tell you happy new year b.o.d and good luck well thank you sonny happy new year to you come on pinball get a couple decent line hips golden nugget that's a casino we're at the cosmopolitan is there a game called golden nugget oh yeah [Music] what was your biggest hit um nice on 15 bets yeah can't beat that [Music] i know where a wild wild nugget is but um some guy last night kept saying wild wild nugget the whole time and it really gave me bad juju and we lost so no wild wild nugget tonight i'm not a fan of that game anyways but we got a come on bonus 80. okay 250 it's a good start come on 80 80 no 500 bucks come on 80 80. [Music] [Applause] all right we're at 8 40. like 7 60 something like that get it five back upstairs legit whoops taught me so my final spin okay cash now [Music] 1500 left [Music] carrie and i gonna play some video poker for five thirty dollars to spin ultimate x video poker scary carry and body now beauty is gonna make the best choices oh thank you for that i'll do the best i can i got carrie here so we'll [Music] oh i didn't sorry i was um live when you texted me oh you're fine [Music] thank you thank you do you want a cosmopolitan no no no hold nothing or yeah all right oh so i was playing this earlier i got dealt four to the royal correct carry yeah i got dealt four to the royal i had a four-time multiplier up top or something and of course i did not hit it we'll be back to slots after this open ender all right seven queens [Music] maybe i should have held the aces michael alphonse in the house check out live stream casino shenanigans on facebook featuring michael halphon nothing all right the no holds barred anything goes facebook gambling drinking debauchery group sanders lodge shared the length thank you okay in order here we go oh come on give us something here come on [Music] all right here we go four to the flush let's hit this yeah look at the next all right come on four of a kind wherever oh come on oh come on top here okay guys all right come on could be eight thousand dollars it could be all right here we go a little dramatic pause come on twenty thousand dollars here it comes [Music] oh man yep yeah i got del four to the royal with the multiplier i had a couple good deals today [Music] here we go [Music] all right here we go come on four of a kind four of a kind king queen [Music] hey quads there we go oh cheers that's why i got somebody else here [Music] maybe if i do a late night it'd be all video poker live stream it's a possibility if anybody wants to do a video poker with me tonight maybe i'm going for it oh you just look at it [Music] okay so it's open ender too yeah so you need a two or seven eclipse [Music] there we go [Applause] 2500 [Music] all right [Music] nice all right so we're at 28 10. i'll probably play down 2 500 or so yeah um come on here it comes guys let's play for a miracle carry i'm good right yeah ah tyler smith the b.o.d for president carrie lee for vp i like it okay let's do it again come on four of a kind [Music] [Music] [Music] yes sir oh come on four aces come on [Music] [Music] okay that's right it's lacey from the slot ladies the one and only will she go live tonight i don't know if you guys want to send her money on only fans i think she may go live again tonight but hopefully is that how you send people money oh yeah so if you check out lacey's instagram and tracyd or whoever has it share it in the chat and on instagram they have your cash app in there so if somebody wants to send lacey 100 bucks or she gets up to 500 tonight i think she may go live again [Music] oh somebody sent you 100 you just need 400 more all right that sounds fair and whoever sends the most money can pick the game [Music] it'd probably be after the big jackpot tonight probably directly after before the group poll [Music] it actually was good she told me my left arm was sore because my right arm was tight [Music] yeah i had the hundred minute in the end well worth it eight times there we go anything i have a mask on my braces oh there we go can we get the flush can we get a flush ah yeah that's a good way to end it positive money and tracy d thank you mod tracy just shared lacey's instagram so just to confirm her cash app is linked in the buy over instagram right yeah all right so if she gets 500 tonight 400 more she will be going live [Music] am i down only 500 left yeah i guess i'm only at 500 left tonight wow i thought it had more oh yeah we had the thousand between those two machines right so what do we want to do for the last so let me think about schmidt i put 500 in there 500 here okay we all know what's going to happen last guys 25 spins huff and puff [Music] that's right guys huff and puff to end the night and wild wild nugget is being played i was going to end it tonight in a wild wild nugget but some gentleman is playing it so i can't do that yep 25 spins we're doing well we're gonna do 25 spins we did it yesterday for a thousand bucks we couldn't hit so maybe it's due that that logic worked on the uh what game did the logic were gone oh autumn moon we lost yesterday all right here we go 25 spins huff and puff let's do it um yeah maybe some late night live play i'll talk to some people and figure out a game plan there's no promises [Music] well i got some money to throw in the pot it could be video poker who knows two more yeah yeah there we go by the way we're gonna end it we got backup spins all right i'm excited yesterday was terrible today is much much better one more oops man i didn't mean to do that [Music] oh come on don't be like that it is going to be like that we got backup spin so there's one point we just want a coin [Music] ouch and the actual three games only played seven dollars and fifty cents it was bad [Music] 500 bucks will be the floor [Music] thank you that was not a good bonus nope nope nope [Music] come on the volume is maxed out that is not the issue what are you gonna do one more spin to end the night on bank the bonus live play i don't i would like to play it through but i don't know if that's fair because everybody has to agree on it so based on that um i'm okay thank you though so but guys thank you so much on behalf of b.o.d scary carrie and lacey we will see you soon remember check her out on instagram camera's on you just let you know oh hi taking my these are not i can't walk in them so i'm switching all right so check her out on instagram if she gets 500 today she's going live and you pick the game if you're the highest donor and also check her out on only fans so all right guys thanks to glot and i will see you guys later on maybe late night tonight bye
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READ THIS FIRST: Official Frequently Asked Questions and Answers - Important Up to Date Information You Need To Know about EIDL

\*LAST UPDATED 8/01**)

OFFICIAL FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS FOR EIDL

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PURPOSE:
This post will be a master thread with everything we have collectively learned on EIDL about the loan and the application process. It will be updated on an ongoing basis and will always contain the most current information. Things change frequently at the SBA with policy and you should check back on this thread on a regular basis.
Please post any questions not covered and I will respond and add them here.
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INDEX OF QUESTIONS:
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  1. How do I get in touch with customer service phone support?
  2. What are my chances of being approved for this loan? Can I know in advance?
  3. I received a decline letter for “Business activity not eligible”. What can I do?
  4. How is the loan amount calculated? How can I request a specific amount?
  5. What is the maximum loan amount?
  6. When will I get my portal invite?
  7. I finally got a portal invite and accepted and submitted an amount. My application says it is "processing", now what?
  8. I understand that processing really means "underwriting", but how long will it actually take? What is the normal amount of time?
  9. Does contacting my congressmen or senator actually work?
  10. I accidentally entered the wrong revenue or COGS on my application and my offer amount was lower than I expected, is it possible to change this?
  11. I need to change my Rev or COGS and I already accepted an amount in the portal, Tier 2 told me to do it! Is it too late?
  12. Who are you, cue378? Can you help me?
  13. My loan as obligated or already funded, I made a mistake with my COGS or revenue and I am not happy with the amount. Can I change it?
  14. How do I show support for the volunteers and moderators for EIDL
  15. I received my portal link, but when I go to create an account it just takes me to the login page. What can be done?
  16. I was declined for "unsatisfactory credit". What are my options?
  17. What documents are required? Will a loan officer contact me?
  18. What is the status of the Advance/Grant program? Can I still get a grant?
  19. What are the eligible uses of EIDL funds?
  20. I received a denial letter for the reason "ECONOMIC INJURY NOT SUSTAINED". What does this mean and what can I do?
  21. What is CAWEB and how can it help me track my loan disbursement and other status?
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1. QUESTION: How do I get in touch with customer service phone support?
ANSWER: The highest level of official customer service is known as "tier 2" and can be reached by calling 1-800-659-2955 and asking for Tier 2. (NOTE: As of 5/29 the previous direct number is currently out of service) They are unfortunately, a very limited means of support. They are able to check your application status and see the current "stage" and leave notes in your file, but unable to directly make any changes or escalate anything in a meaningful way.
Most are very nice and well meaning people but are usually poorly informed and often provided contradictory information between calls. The important thing to understand is that notes left by T2 do not actually notify a loan officer or anyone, they are simply waiting to be read if someone happens to open your file and takes the time to review the case notes. So if a T2 says they requested a change do not assume it was or will be made.
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2. QUESTION: What are my chances of being approved for this loan? Can I know in advance?
ANSWER: The loan is relatively easy to get approval for by loan standards. The exact underwriting criteria the SBA is using was leaked by some helpful people (hat tip to u/Sbaleaky) and thus you can have a good understanding what your chances are.
Underwriters look for the following:
-Minimum Credit Score of 570. They will pull from experian. Close to Vantage 3 model found on nav DOT com or TransUnion numbers on credit karma. They do NOT use FICO. Credit score is largest factor for approval for this loan and no exceptions are made for under 570.
-If economic injury was sustained based on formula described in QUESTION 4. If this is a negative number you will be auto declined. (SEE QUESTION 5) The SBA does not consider potential revenue lost or general expenses in the loan amount.
-Tax liens or tax issues are NOT a disqualifying factor or taken into consideration for COVID19 disaster.
-Business start date must be prior to 1/31/20
-open bankruptcies = Declined. Closed OK.
-Arrest for felony < 5 years = Declined
-Arrest for misdemeanor < 5 years = Declined
-Sole proprietors with delinquent child support > 60 days = Declined
-Any business principals with 50% or more ownership with delinquent child support > 60 days = Declined
-Your business must pass verification in some way that it is a valid operation. If they can find it on google it will suffice. Otherwise you may have to provide documents to prove it's a legit business.
-Your business type must not be on the list for ineligible business activity. See list on FAQ.
-All owners on application must be either US citizens or Permanent Residents. E-2 Investor visa is NOT eligible and any attempts to appeal or add a co-borrower who is a citizen or LPR will be unsuccessful. Corporations, Partnerships, and Limited Liability Entities (LLE): Alien-owned corporations, partnerships, and LLEs properly registered and licensed in the state where the disaster occurred are eligible. If any member, partner, or shareholder, owning 20 percent or more of the applicant business is in the USA they must be a qualified alien. If the alien resides outside the USA an exception may be made.
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3. QUESTION: I received a decline letter for “Business activity not eligible”. What can I do?
ANSWER: EIDL has a list of restricted business categories, if your type is NOT on this list and you still received this letter you may have been improperly classified.
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The following applicants are not eligible for EIDL assistance.
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4. QUESTION: How is the loan amount calculated? How can I request a specific amount?
ANSWER: There is no way to request a specific amount, the eligible amount is calculated automatically by formula based on your inputs. There are three known formulas:
  1. Standard Small Business: Revenue minus COGS divided by 2 minus advance, subject to maximum of 150K
  2. Not for Profit: 6 months operating expenses year prior to 1/31/20
  3. Business that collects rental property income, your offer is calculated by lost rents due to the disaster, not the standard formula. If your offer is lower than expected you may have been wrongly classified into this formula.
  4. Agricultural businesses: 6 months operating expenses year prior to 1/31/20
If the formula results in a negative number or less than your advance you will be declined for "ECONOMIC INJURY NOT SUSTAINED"
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5. QUESTION: What is the maximum loan amount?
ANSWER: As of last update it is currently 150K cap. This will not change anytime soon and there will be no way to request more at present. The only way to avoid the cap is if your loan was already being obligated prior to the change by the SBA from 500K. If I hear anything new on this it will be updated here.
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6. QUESTION: When will I get my portal invite?
ANSWER: Portal invites are a fully automated process and not strictly sequential but follow general group patterns. If you see someone that has a higher number than you get a portal invite it does NOT mean you were "passed over".
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7. QUESTION: I finally got a portal invite and accepted and submitted an amount. My application says it is "processing", now what?
ANSWER: This is when the actual loan process starts and underwriting begins. Your application will be assigned a loan officer for review using the criteria listed in question 2. The exact process is as follows (hat tip u/sbaleaky and u/LOL_Face_69) with the actual stages from start to finish. Keep in mind that once you accept in the portal a number of things are going on behind the scenes, which is why "processing" can take a great deal of time. Once you see a loan amount in your portal, this is NOT a "pre-approved offer". It is simply a potential amount you are eligible for based on the stated formula if you pass underwriting.
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[The following takes place behind the scenes and will not reflect in your portal, but will still say "processing"]
Note: The exception to this process is that some applications which are considered easy (based on unknown factors) to approve are subject to full automation and may go straight to approval bypassing the above steps. This only happens in rare cases.
You may also see a status that says, "On-Hold" Amount $0: This status typically is when your loan was temporarily declined and is still in the reconsideration department pending possible reconsideration approval. It most commonly relates to credit based issues or problems pulling your credit report from Experian.
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8. QUESTION: I now understand that processing really means "underwriting", but how long will it actually take? What is the normal amount of time?
ANSWER: The amount of time it is normal for your portal to say "processing" is highly variable as a hundred different factors are involved behind the scenes. Once you submit for processing you are in queue to be assigned a loan officer**.** If your application has been in underwriting for greater than 20 days it may merit investigate, but not necessarily indicate a problem with your chances of approval. Do NOT panic if it seems "stuck" with no communication from anyone. This is normal.
​

UPDATE: As of 7/20 the current queue/wait time to be assigned a loan officer, get approved, and have closing docs drafted is 14-18 days. Some are seeing immediate automated approvals same day, this only happens in around 30% of cases. The rest must be manually processed. You are NOT "stuck" if you are still within this time range.

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9. QUESTION: Does contacting my congressmen or senator actually work?
ANSWER: Yes, the SBA treats congressional inquiry very carefully and will flag and sometimes white glove your application. Often they will assign a special case worker during the process. The important thing is when your local congressional office reaches out they do NOT contact the local district SBA but this email: [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]). This email is NOT for use by applicants but only official government purposes.
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10. QUESTION: Help! I accidentally entered the wrong revenue or COGS on my application and my offer amount was lower than I expected, is it possible to change this?
ANSWER: Yes, but only if you meet the following two conditions:
  1. You should NOT have already accepted an amount and submitted for processing in the portal. *If you already did see note below.
  2. You have documentation to backup the changes such as Federal Tax Returns 2018 or 2019 or P&L Statements. Tax returns are preferred if available but not required if the offer is showing as eligible in the portal.

The important thing here is DO NOT accept the offer in the portal if you need to revise your numbers.

*IF YOU HAVE ALREADY ACCEPTED THE OFFER: Call tier 2 support as soon as you possibly can and ask them to make the following note in your file: Loan Officer, DO NOT approve this file without calling me, the applicant, because my (revenue or COGS) figures are wrong. I have supporting docs to make the changes. Please contact me ASAP.
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11. QUESTION: I need to change my Rev or COGS and I already accepted an amount in the portal, Tier 2 told me to do it! Is it too late?
Answer: Unfortunately tier 2 is currently giving absolutely terrible advice in this situation. They are telling people to accept the offer in the portal to speak with a loan officer to make the revision. The problem is that once you accept you set the process in motion and then it gets obligated by treasury it is impossible to adjust. The proper time is prior to accepting. Often times loan officers never are needed, never reach out or even read these notes. I see it every day and people are stuck its the "kiss of death" advice. If you already accepted you may have time but would need to work quickly from date of submit.
UPDATE: As of 6/15 there is now a way to fix this. See question 13.
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12. QUESTION: Who are you, cue378? Can you help me?
ANSWER: I am a small business owner sharing the information, strategies, and general knowledge I have gained over the course of 4 months and helping in almost 1000 cases. I do not work at the SBA nor do I have any affiliation with the SBA.
Do to an extreme flood of requests for help, I will not be able to answer PM's or chat requests.
Some people have asked how they can support my efforts. While I do not ask for donations, another volunteer decided to setup a tip jar in case people want to show their support. To be clear any assistance I offer is entirely free without any expectations. Please note, anything donated prior to contacting me in an effort to gain faster help/special attention won't yield those results, while appreciate your support I keep everything fair to others who don't donate. The tip jar can be found HERE.
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13. QUESTION: My loan was obligated, already funded, or I already accepted the amount in the portal. I made a mistake with my COGS or revenue and I am not happy with the amount. Can I change it?
ANSWER: As of 6/12 loan modifications are now being allowed. You can contact [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]) and request a "Loan Modification increase". It is a 3-4 week process that requires documentation. A second loan will be given for the difference from the first one. It will be processed as a 20xx series loan in the old system/portal. For more details email me. Note if you have not yet accepted the offer the normal process is much faster.
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14. QUESTION: How do I show support for the volunteers and moderators for EIDL
ANSWER: For supporting Cue378, there is a tip jar listed above. If you wish to show support to our community moderators, you may reach out to them direct at u/tahoechick36 and u/Scorpio14534to ask how you can show your appreciation for their time and efforts. It takes a great deal work run the community and they are putting in a near full time effort outside their normal occupations.
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15. QUESTION: I received my portal link, but when I go to create an account it just takes me to the login page or I get the error: "The user account has not been confirmed yet. What can be done?
ANSWER:
If you takes you back to the login screen instead of letting you create an account, try following the steps HERE
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16. QUESTION: I was declined for "unsatisfactory credit". What are my options?
ANSWER: You have a few options.
  1. You can bring your vantage 3 score over 570 by paying down cards, when you are ready you can request the SBA re-pull your report and reactivate your account via [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])
  2. *You can request to add a co-borrower that has a higher score than 570 with no open bankruptcy and run their credit to reactivate your application.
*As of July 20th the SBA is no longer allowing the use of a Co-Borrower for reconsideration of an insufficient credit denial. Further details and updates on this situation are available in the thread HERE.
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17. QUESTION: What documents are required? Will a loan officer contact me?
ANSWER: In many cases no documentation is required and everything is self certified. Most commonly an LO will need to contact you to clarify some things about your business or request specific documents, or confirm your public business presence. In about 1/3 cases you will receive no communication from a loan officer and approvals are automated. For denials you lose self certification ability and you will be required to furnish full documentation.
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18. QUESTION: What is the status of the Advance/Grant program? Can I still get a grant?
ANSWER: As most of you already know, the EIDL Advance/Grant program has ended and the full 20 billion in funding for the advance has been exhausted. The option has been removed from new applications. Getting funding for the advance as a new applicant at this time will not be possible.
For older applications please see this post for more information:
https://www.reddit.com/EIDL/comments/hr3l41/eidl_news_714_update_regarding_the_current_status/
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19. QUESTION: What are the eligible uses of EIDL funds?
ANSWER: These loans may be used to pay fixed debts, payroll, accounts payable and other bills that can’t be paid because of the disaster’s impact. What are all the possible uses of the funds? The wording ‘obligations that are unable to be met due to lack of revenue’ seems to be a catch all, but how much so? The EIDL working capital loans may be used to pay fixed debts, payroll, accounts payable, and other bills that could have been paid had the disaster not occurred. The loans are not intended to replace lost sales or profits or for expansion.
If you have more specific questions on the allowable usage of EIDL funds, one of our moderators, u/Scorpio14534 who is also a licensed professional CPA that is very knowledgeable on this matter is open to email requests. They can be reached here: [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])
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20. QUESTION: I received a denial letter for the reason "ECONOMIC INJURY NOT SUSTAINED". What does this mean and what can I do?
ANSWER: This occurs when the numbers entered on your application for COGS are greater than your revenue. The SBA calculates economic injury based on the formula in question number 4. You can also be denied for this reason if the resulting number is less than your advance amount. Please note that the SBA is only taking into account revenue earned prior to the disaster date of 1/31/20 to calculate your economic injury. If your only revenue was earned after that date as a newer business you may not qualify, but it is possible to use a 12 month projection which you can submit to reconsideration.
If the numbers on your application were correct, you would not be eligible for an EIDL. If you made an error you can request an amendment and reactivation of your application.
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21. QUESTION: What is CAWEB and how can it help me track my loan disbursement and other status?
ANSWER: You can use the Capital Access Finance System to track your EIDL after your documents have been signed and submitted through funding. It allows you to see disbursement status and other details related to your loan.
****Hat tip to u/tahoechick36 for this amazing write up*\*
Using the Capital Access Finance System to track your EIDL after your documents have been signed and submitted through funding.
Visit caweb.sba.gov or click the link at the top of EIDL
Setting up an account:
You need a SBA Loan # to set up an account - for EIDL it appears on the first page of your documents, in the upper left hand area, and says "SBA Loan # XXXXXXXXXX.”
SBA loan #'s are 10 digits. Your Application # will NOT work for account set-up.
If you have a PPP Loan, you can use your SBA # for this loan to set up an account. Sometimes this # is easy to figure out, sometimes not. That has to do with an intermediary (like your bank) being involved, but if you can track down an actual SBA Loan #, you can go ahead and get registered without your EIDL loan number.
  1. On the home page click on "Not Enrolled?" in the top left. This takes you to a screen to enter info. You may come to hate this screen, this process is very finicky.
  2. Look at the rules for creating a User ID and Password by clicking on "Rules..." next to the fields.
  3. Write your exact ID & password down somewhere - if you ever get locked out and call the SBA for help, they are going to tell you that Borrowers are not supposed to be able to access CAFS CAWeb. Apparently we still can, so don't make this a big deal or maybe that will change!
  4. For user type - select "borrower" from the drop down menu.
  5. Fill in the highlighted fields with your info. Click on the "ZIP LOOKUP" button after you enter your zip code. This auto populates some other boxes, and registration won't work if you don't do this.
  6. For the country code in the phone number section enter "1" for the United States.
  7. Financial commitment ID is your Loan # - 10 digits.
  8. If you don't have a landline, it has been reported that just entering your mobile number in both fields works. You will have to select 3 of their security questions, enter the Captcha image info, then hit "submit" at the bottom.
If it didn't like the info you have entered, it will give you an error message for what part it didn't like, and you will have to try again, which requires re-entering quite a bit of the information. It's a pain.
But if it takes it, you're in! There may be a verification step now as well.
Finding your loan on CAWeb
  1. On the caweb homepage, login (if you aren't already), it will be personalized and show your name. You have to scroll down and check the "Agree to Terms" box when you are logging in.
  2. Click on "Borrower" in the top left, then click on "Borrower Search". This should take you to your "Loan List" showing the loan #, borrower name, loan type, amount, and loan status.
  3. PPP loans typically appear as "Active Un-Disbursed" - if your PPP is already funded don't worry about that. Your EIDL will show up as "Disbursed Current" if funds are on their way. It may say something else if you look immediately after you send back you Docs, but it should change pretty quickly. Logging out and back in again will sometimes refresh the status. Loan status will say "Active Un-Disbursed" until Treasury send the funds to your bank, then it changes to "Disbursed Current".
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